Sweet Success: A French Macaron Maker's Rise to SEO Mastery

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Speaker 1: SEO. It's the acronym that can mystify and even

00:01:08
intimidate. But what if I told you that there is a secret

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recipe to ranking success that doesn't solely rely on your

00:01:15
brand's name recognition? That's right. We are unfolding the

00:01:19
layers of non-branded SEO and how a little savoir faire in

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content creation can have your website climbing the search

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engine ranks From French Macron to the digital search of a

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storefront. Our guest Anthony Roseman's story is as rich and

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colorful as his delicious pastries. He's here to share

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insights on building a content library that not only ranks but

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entices and converts, prepare to satisfy your marketing cravings

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with a taste of SEO success. So stay tuned to this next episode

00:01:51
of the your Digital Marketing Coach podcast.

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Speaker 2: Digital social media content, influencer marketing,

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blogging, podcasting, vlogging, tiktok, linkedin, twitter,

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facebook, instagram, youtube, seo, sem, ppc, email marketing

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there's a lot to cover. Whether you're a marketing professional,

00:02:14
entrepreneur or business owner, you need someone you can rely

00:02:17
on for expert advice. Good thing you've got Neil on your side,

00:02:23
because Neil Schaefer is your digital marketing coach helping

00:02:31
you grow your business with digital. First marketing, one

00:02:35
episode at a time. This is your digital marketing coach and this

00:02:40
is Neil Schaefer.

00:02:43
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, this is Neil Schaefer, your digital

00:02:46
marketing coach. Welcome to episode number 357. Before we

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get to today's interview with my special guest, anthony Rosemont

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parlez-vous français? It's time for a personal update on the

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book. This podcast interview actually comes from writing my

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book. I have a chapter dedicated to this concept of creating a

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library of content and when I was looking for case studies

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that I could use to prove my concept, I happened to run

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across this case study on the SEMrush, or SEMrush website that

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featured this maker of macarons , who actually is just an hour

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outside of me in Los Angeles. It's a really amazing story and

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I think you'll hear the results he got were amazing as well. Yes

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, this is being repurposed to be a case study in a chapter in my

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book. I know that my book still does not have a name. It does.

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I haven't yet revealed it to the public but I continue to

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proceed forward right now, continue to be in project

00:03:49
management mode, dealing with trying to get a book cover to

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fit my concept a little bit better and also dealing with the

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creation of book illustrations, also making progress on my

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workbook, which will be a companion workbook for this book

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the first time I've ever done it, but I think, as an educator

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and wanting you to really internalize and get started on

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everything I teach in the book, I thought that would be a great

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way to do that. So stay tuned for those updates. And we also

00:04:17
have our AI tool of the week. I like introducing these to you.

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There's still so much technology out there that has evolved over

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the last year and you don't want to wait for the current

00:04:27
tool that you're using to start having AI functionality. Not

00:04:32
every tool has AI functionality, and even some that do, it's not

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really a lot of added value. You might be able to get the

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same thing in a chat GPT or a Google Gemini. Now, today I want

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to introduce to you a tool that you've heard me talk about

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before in this podcast. Disclaimer I am a ambassador or

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I should say brand ambassador for this brand and for this

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product, but that is in no way influencing my introducing this

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tool to you. The tool is Adobe Express. Now we know that, in

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terms of just easy to use graphic tools for social media,

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the five letter tool that begins in the letter C was first to

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market. But, like many other tools that, let me ask you do

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you still use tweet deck to manage your social media. Do you

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still use Hootsuite to manage your social media? I think over

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time, new tools come out, they emerge and they are often better

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. Thinking of what functionality do the current gorillas in the

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market lack? Now Adobe I believe I said the same approach with

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Adobe Express. I used to be called Adobe Spark, so they've

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been doing it for a few years and now they've come to a point

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with infusing it with AI and really easy to use user

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interface with tons of attractive templates. I urge you

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, if you haven't done so before, go to Neal Schaefercom slash

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Adobe Express. Yes, it's an affiliate link. It helps support

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the production of the show, but you can try Adobe Express

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basically for free, for lifetime . They have a limited free

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lifetime version. Check it out. I think the user interface will

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be a pleasant surprise In terms of AI functionality. It uses the

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Adobe Firefly AI engine. It also uses the same sort of

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generative AI fill. So with one touch, with one click, you can

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remove the background from an image and then you can have a

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text prompt and ask Adobe Express to basically fill in the

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background with any image that you want. This is the same AI

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generative fill that Photoshop uses. That is available in Adobe

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Express as well. Obviously, there's AI resizing of images,

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there is AI translation of captions in your image and, in

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fact, if you were to see a video that I did some time ago, I

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actually showed how to do, basically in a minute, use text

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to image, edit the text and then immediately create like five

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different variations for five different social networks, and

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then each one of those in five different languages. Pretty

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freaking incredible. So go to nealshafercom, slash Adobe

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Express. We will have the link in the show notes as well. All

00:07:00
right, now it's time for this interview, which I truly enjoyed

00:07:04
. This is with my French friend, the macaron maker himself,

00:07:09
anthony Rosemont. Makes you a stick to the end. It was a great

00:07:11
interview. Hey everybody, neil Schaefer, welcome to another

00:07:24
live stream edition of the your Digital Marketing Coach podcast.

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As I continue my pursuit of writing my fifth book, which I

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hope becomes a definitive digital marketing playbook for a

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new generation of entrepreneurs and business owners, I am

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scouring the web looking for case studies that fit the vision

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that I have for my book, that fit what I want to teach others

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to do, and in doing that research I come across a lot of

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really, really interesting businesses doing a lot of

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interesting things. So today I'm going to introduce you one of

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those small business owners who has had major impact in

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something that might surprise you. It surprised me because

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when you think of French pastries, macarons specifically,

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you might think that Instagram or perhaps TikTok, is a place

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where you can generate a lot of demand for your business. And it

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is right, and I know that our guest today is also active, at

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least on Instagram, but I didn't check the TikTok. But SEO is

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also a place where this owner decided to make a big investment

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and I think it's going to be a really, really interesting story

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and hopefully really inspire you, because this gentleman, you

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know, with his wife and family, moved from France to the United

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States to open up an online macaron shop. There's going to

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be a lot more behind the story, so I can't wait to get into it.

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Anthony Roseman, the founder and owner or co-owner of Pastries,

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welcome to the show. Yes, hi, thanks for having me. It's so

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great to have you and obviously I read about you through your

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case study on SEMrush, but it mentioned that you went all the

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way from France, the United States, to open up this shop.

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Can you maybe start with? What was that vision? What was that

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dream? Why did you come thousands of miles to this

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foreign country to do what you're doing now?

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, my wife and I, we both had patience for

00:09:25
baking and entrepreneurship together, so we decided to leave

00:09:28
everything in France to the US, back in 2017 now, and the idea

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was to build an online store about French pastries, and in

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the beginning, we didn't know much. You know that what would

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be a good impact for the market in the US Like what kind of

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French pastry do you guys like? So we just, you know, bring a

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lot of different things to the table, and the macarons were the

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most popular ones, so that's why we focused on this one first

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, and that's kind of how we all started to put a long story

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short, you know.

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Speaker 1: So what made you? Were you already doing this? In

00:10:07
France? You already had a pastry shop, and then you decided to

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take it, or no, no, no, no, I'm an engineer originally.

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Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

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Speaker 3: I was a manager in the, I would say, the Edison of

00:10:20
France, managing some teams, operational manager, and my wife

00:10:24
was a human resource. So we traveled quite a lot. We did

00:10:29
three years in the French West Indies, which was, you know, in

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the Caribbean, and we did a couple years as well in the

00:10:35
Grand Yone Island, which is in the Indian Ocean next to

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Madagascar.

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Speaker 2: So at some point.

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Speaker 3: We really wanted to do our own stuff, and so we had

00:10:45
this discussion. You know what do we like to do.

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Speaker 2: For me.

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Speaker 3: I like, of course, baking, but I also like you know

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, every like, every aspect of the online stuff. Like you know,

00:10:53
digital marketing, building a brand online all that is things

00:10:57
that I really love to do, and she was really interested into

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this idea. So we, we just, you know, we just left everything

00:11:03
and decided to try.

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Speaker 1: Were you a trained chef in French pastries before

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you started Before no, we just had that patient.

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Speaker 3: You know doing that at home. Okay, so before to

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actually leave, what we did is we had Le Corgogne in Paris.

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It's like an intensive pastry program where you learn like one

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pastry every day and that's what we did. You know to kind of

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have. You know you have the passion part that you do at home

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but you need to do like a professionally trained just to

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see you know kind of the secrets for the recipe to put them in

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In huge batch as well. So that was, that was a good experience.

00:11:44
You know the Corgogne in Paris. So we did that before to leave

00:11:47
so we can have like a professional background as well.

00:11:49


00:11:50
Speaker 1: Got it. So you went from there, came to the United

00:11:54
States with the concept of French pastries, not knowing

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what people would like, and you landed upon the macaron. Was

00:12:01
there a a process where you test selling different products to

00:12:05
find that? Was it market research or how did you? How did

00:12:09
you hone in on the macaron as your main product?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so the first time when we arrived. So

00:12:15
we arrived in February 2017 and, you know, three months, very

00:12:20
simple. We were in the Airbnb and, just, you know, with two

00:12:24
luggage, starting from scratch, and before to start selling

00:12:27
anything, I wanted to find the product market fit. So the idea

00:12:31
was to get feedbacks. You know, at some point we didn't have a

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product, we didn't have a business. I wanted to to know

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what, what do people like here? And if there is a fit, you know,

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for our product to the market. So what we did is we went on to

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the app called Mita and what we were doing is like offering free

00:12:51
pastries samples, like different kind of French

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pastries, so it was like macaron , it was different kind of cakes

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, pies and all that. And we will just go to these meetings and

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just share with them these pastries and get, like you know,

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for free and get feedbacks in exchange. And that's how we kind

00:13:08
of ended up in a, in a group of pregnant women with twins. So

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it was like twins, pregnant women. That was kind of fun

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because, you know, we were not pregnant at all, but it's just

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you know surrounded by twin pregnant ladies and husbands and

00:13:26
we bring like French pastries to the table. That was a cool,

00:13:30
cool situation.

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Speaker 1: You said these were Apple Meetups. You know it's

00:13:35
like an app. Oh, meetupscom Got it, Got it.

00:13:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, meetups. Yeah, you have an app and you can, you

00:13:41
know, meet people with the same interest as you, or things like

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that.

00:13:45
Speaker 1: So you were finding just people to meet up with

00:13:47
locally where you were various places.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like a group of people that were

00:13:52
open to, to taste those you know and give us some feedback.

00:13:57
That's brilliant.

00:13:57
Speaker 1: Okay, so you landed on the Macaron and you know.

00:14:02
Obviously you figured out how to make them. How did you decide

00:14:06
on I guess, for lack of a better word like the launch plan or

00:14:09
the marketing plan, or, outside of those people you were meeting

00:14:12
on Meetup? How were you going to promote these? And because

00:14:16
it's an online store, I assume although I think you have an

00:14:18
in-person store as well how you know what was sort of the

00:14:20
marketing plan at the start?

00:14:22
Speaker 3: So this very beginning one, it was really

00:14:25
like the feedback stage, I would say. But after that what we

00:14:29
wanted to do is the next step is like a validation. You know we

00:14:33
wanted to get sales to see and to still be in front of people

00:14:37
to see it. You know, because online you can do pretty much

00:14:39
everything but you don't meet people. And before to go online

00:14:43
I wanted to really meet people and see their face when they try

00:14:46
our stuff. So what we did is, now that we know my carons are

00:14:49
popular, we're going to start with those and we wanted to go

00:14:54
to farmers markets. So it's kind of a next step. You know, now

00:14:58
it's a business, even if it's a small one. You know we've just

00:15:00
markets going here and there, but you know we have a product

00:15:04
now. So we tried to do some accounts and we bring it to the

00:15:07
table and trying to sell to real customers. So you know, finding

00:15:11
the right price, finding the right flavors, the right colors

00:15:15
that was the idea behind this phase as well, and of course,

00:15:19
you don't get the first sales and see how the business can go,

00:15:21
you know. So the next step was this one the farmers markets

00:15:25
that we did.

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Speaker 1: And you live I'm actually not too far from you in

00:15:29
Orange County, but yeah, so I'm assuming like every day of the

00:15:33
week, literally, there's probably a different farmers

00:15:35
market that you could have gone.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we did three of them and actually I was even

00:15:40
closer to you because we were in Costa Mesa oh wow, newport and

00:15:45
Malibu. So that was the three farmers market that we did at

00:15:48
the time and we did it for maybe a couple months you know, six

00:15:51
months maybe. And the beginning we saw, like you know, trends in

00:15:56
terms of flavors. For example, sited caramel, pistachio, things

00:16:00
like that. That was the idea to get like the popular flavors.

00:16:03
And then in parallel I was starting to build the Shopify

00:16:08
store, so that kind of you know, went head to head together. I

00:16:13
was kind of getting the feedbacks from the markets that

00:16:15
I was putting into the website.

00:16:18
Speaker 1: And you were still making the. You didn't have a

00:16:19
retail store, then you were still making these at home and

00:16:22
then bringing them.

00:16:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly we had, like a rental kitchen, a

00:16:26
commercial kitchen that you can rent, you know, by the hour, and

00:16:29
we were using those you know to produce the backer ones.

00:16:33
Speaker 1: So when you were at these farmers markets and then

00:16:35
you were not promoting like a website, basically come back

00:16:37
next week if you want to buy more type of yeah in the

00:16:40
beginning, not, but in the towards the middle of this

00:16:43
experience.

00:16:44
Speaker 3: Yes, because the website wasn't done in the

00:16:46
beginning, but once it was done, I, what I did is like,

00:16:50
physically, I had like an email list that I would like have

00:16:54
people sign up for the newsletter and let us know their

00:16:57
email In exchange, like of you know a couple more, my parents

00:17:01
for free. So that worked pretty well. We build up, you know, a

00:17:04
good list, but of course you go to see these farmers markets.

00:17:07
You are limited to the people that are in front of you so you

00:17:09
can't really scale that much. But it was kind of the first, I

00:17:13
would say the first marketing aspect to it, you know really

00:17:18
smart.

00:17:18
Speaker 1: You were already building up your list and you

00:17:20
had a lead magnet, which is free macarons, which is awesome.

00:17:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

00:17:25
Speaker 1: Was the list being built, like you know, 10 or 20

00:17:26
each day, 50, 100. Do you remember sort of like the volume

00:17:29
?

00:17:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah it was probably 10 to 20 each day,

00:17:34
since you know you have people to accept it to write and then

00:17:38
you know. So it's like people in the markets sometimes they're

00:17:41
in the hurry, so it was kind of you know different, but yeah,

00:17:44
probably 10 to 20 a day. So, yeah, by the end of the the

00:17:49
farmers markets, a couple of hundreds emails, you know, from

00:17:53
locals.

00:17:54
Speaker 1: So then you were building, you chose Shopify as

00:17:58
your e-commerce CMS, which makes a lot of sense, obviously. So

00:18:01
now you're building your website . Now you want to launch your

00:18:03
website, right? So how did you shift the marketing at that

00:18:07
phase?

00:18:08
Speaker 3: To tell you the whole thing, at the very, very

00:18:10
beginning we wanted to do a subscription box only, so it

00:18:15
wasn't even Shopify. In the very , very beginning we had another

00:18:18
platform that was focused on subscription box, because our

00:18:22
idea in the beginning was to have a French pastry

00:18:25
subscription box, like everyone's getting a new kind of

00:18:28
French pastry. But that business model was very limited,

00:18:31
you know, to people wanting to engage into a subscription. So

00:18:34
we got like lots of requests to have you know one time order and

00:18:37
everything and that platform that we had at the time on the

00:18:41
end of subscriptions. So that's how we really switched to

00:18:45
Shopify in the very early days, because it was, you know, more

00:18:48
flexible. We already, have we also have a subscription box

00:18:52
today, you know, but you can do more stuff with Shopify. But

00:18:56
yeah, now that we have the Shopify thing going on. We were

00:18:58
doing the Farmers' Market Steel in Parthen. The beginning and

00:19:03
the switch I would say was more like I would say was starting

00:19:07
early on to work on SEO, because SEO is really the organic part

00:19:14
of things that I like. People will find you because of your

00:19:18
product, of your blog post or whatever, but then we find you

00:19:21
naturally with your Google. So early on I started to focus

00:19:25
really on SEO.

00:19:26
Speaker 1: Got it. So I guess, similar to how, if you want to

00:19:29
get your product found in real life, go to Farmers' Markets. If

00:19:33
you want to get it found online , do a SEO right. So I want to

00:19:38
take a step back. So you know, you launched a subscription box,

00:19:41
launched a Shopify store. Did you sort of learn how to do this

00:19:44
all yourself? Did you hire an agency to do all this for you,

00:19:48
or what was the process?

00:19:51
Speaker 3: I would say throughout the years before

00:19:54
coming to the US, I always had this online marketing passion,

00:19:58
so I knew about SEO, but I had to dig in at some point I don't

00:20:03
especially in the beginning we don't have the resource to hire

00:20:06
too many people and it was important for me to learn this

00:20:09
kind of stuff. So I really learned it myself, like you know

00:20:12
, through our blogs, different stuff that I saw online, and

00:20:16
obviously SamRush was a big, big help. You know their tool is

00:20:19
very great. So yeah. I kind of really learned myself in the

00:20:23
beginning. It's a long strategy, but I started to study the

00:20:27
competitors first to see what they are doing and what we can

00:20:30
do better.

00:20:31
Speaker 1: Got it. So the Shopify store that you put up,

00:20:33
you put up yourself. Then correct the web design. All that

00:20:37
, yes, yeah.

00:20:39
Speaker 3: The process of the design, the logos, the identity

00:20:43
of the brand, the story behind it. Yes, we know that.

00:20:46
Speaker 1: Very cool. So you then shifted to SEO. So you know

00:20:50
, the case study in SamRush is about how you were targeting

00:20:54
non-branded keywords, obviously. So if people are interested in

00:20:58
macro, how do we get found? I'm assuming was the original you

00:21:01
know start. So can you sort of describe that process to

00:21:04
everybody, of what you did and what the results ended up being?

00:21:09
Because I was really impressed by what I read of what you were

00:21:12
able to achieve for a pretty competitive keyword in a really

00:21:15
short amount of time.

00:21:17
Speaker 3: The really first thing that I focused on is read

00:21:19
the competitors, because you know when you arrive new in the

00:21:22
market. At least that was my approach, but you don't arrive

00:21:26
to reinvent, you know the better , or something. So I studied

00:21:31
what they were doing good and what they're doing bad, and that

00:21:34
I can, you know, enter into that bridge. So the first one I

00:21:38
noticed is was the Macarons Near Me. The Near Me keyword at the

00:21:43
time was getting popular, but not that many people were

00:21:46
banking for it. So I directly attacked this keyword, you know,

00:21:50
by adapting like a product page to answer people's questions

00:21:56
about Macarons Near Me. So that was my really first approach to

00:21:59
it.

00:22:00
Speaker 1: So you mentioned a product page. So was this like

00:22:02
an FAQ, a blog post? How did you create content that target that

00:22:06
very specific key phrase?

00:22:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the beginning. It was really not. It

00:22:11
was easier, I would say, to rank for such an easy keyword,

00:22:14
because Near Me now is really complicated keywords to get. But

00:22:17
at the time especially for Macarons Near Me it wasn't, you

00:22:23
know, nobody was really ranking hard for it. So I kind of added,

00:22:27
like the header name, you know the product name is 48 Macarons,

00:22:31
for example. So I added a page so you can buy and have to cover

00:22:33
everything. So it's not a blog post, you know. And so I adapted

00:22:37
, you know, the tags, like the H1 tags, putting some related

00:22:42
keywords here and there, cool sentences related to it, and

00:22:45
that was kind of it in the beginning and we started to rank

00:22:48
very fast for this one because it wasn't such a competitive

00:22:52
keyword. Yeah, and when I saw that, I started the same

00:22:55
strategy for other keywords like buy Macarons or Macarons

00:23:01
shipped. You know everything related to Macarons.

00:23:04
Speaker 1: Got it. So you started by looking at the

00:23:06
keywords that your competitors were ranking for, which

00:23:10
obviously is very, very easy to do in Sumrush. Did you ever sort

00:23:13
of look at you know, Sumrush also has like keyword explorer,

00:23:16
like put in Macaron and go through all the different

00:23:19
keyword variations and the difficulties and the volumes?

00:23:22
Did you go through that process as well, or did you just stick

00:23:24
with what your competitors were ranking for for ideas?

00:23:28
Speaker 3: No, no, no. So the competitors actually were

00:23:31
ranking for different keywords and I wanted to rank for. I

00:23:35
would say, you know, with Sumrush I would see a gap. The

00:23:38
gap you know, like the ones, the keywords that they are ranking

00:23:41
for and the ones that they are not ranking for, but that are

00:23:44
very good keywords you know, like buying intent keyword. So

00:23:49
once I did the Macarons near me and all these you know buying

00:23:55
intent related, I started using Sumrush as well, like typing,

00:24:00
for example, macarons, and they give you like all sorts of

00:24:02
different keywords that are questions that people are asking

00:24:06
online and my idea about SEO is really to answer people's

00:24:11
questions. So, after focusing on the buying intent keywords for

00:24:17
the beginning because you know we are business, so we really

00:24:19
wanted to bring like sales and potential customers I wanted to

00:24:24
attract prospects. You know people are interested about

00:24:27
Macarons or asking questions about it. So, for example, why

00:24:31
are Macarons so expensive? How do you make Macarons? Are

00:24:35
Macarons gluten free? All these kind of questions is like people

00:24:38
getting interested early on, not ready to buy it, but still

00:24:42
so we started answering all these questions in a specific

00:24:45
blog post. That was my strategy for SEO after that.

00:24:49
Speaker 1: And those questions were less about questions that

00:24:52
people asked you at Farmers Market and more about based on

00:24:55
the keyword analysis in Sumrush. Based on that is how you

00:24:59
develop the content correct or a combination.

00:25:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah . I would say the markets for

00:25:05
the farmers markets. I got lots of feedbacks about the products,

00:25:09
so the macarons itself, like the flavors, the colors, even

00:25:13
some future features. That I didn't expect. But people gave

00:25:19
me some cool feedbacks in the market. For example, I don't

00:25:23
know if you saw on our website, but you have the possibility to

00:25:25
select only the macarons you like with like a menu selection

00:25:31
interactive and that was something that came from I

00:25:36
remember his name, kevin in the markets that were buying

00:25:40
macarons from us because at the time we were offering variety

00:25:43
sets in a bag of mix and everything. And he said oh, that

00:25:48
would be cool if your website could select only what you like.

00:25:51
So that was the kind of feedback that helped us shape

00:25:55
our product. And then when I went online, it was more like

00:26:00
SamRush and things like that that would help me. I would say

00:26:03
spread the word online on the SEO level.

00:26:06
Speaker 1: Got it, but those blog posts that you created

00:26:10
revolving around those questions , those keyword ideas, came from

00:26:13
SamRush, then is that correct?

00:26:15
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, they were coming

00:26:17
more from SamRush and, yeah, my Google search in general,

00:26:22
because SamRush is kind of, I would say they take their data

00:26:27
from Google. But if you type some stuff on Google, you can

00:26:29
find also, like suggested questions, that people are

00:26:33
asking about the related topic. So, yeah, that's how I get all

00:26:38
my questions that I want to answer when we get to it, got it

00:26:41
, and how did you go about creating a blog post then?

00:26:46
Speaker 1: So you know you wanna target the keyword. You have an

00:26:49
idea. Okay, I'm gonna write a blog post about why are macarons

00:26:51
so expensive, for instance. What was the thought process as

00:26:54
to what should the word count be ? What should I say? Did you

00:26:58
struggle with that or was it natural?

00:27:01
Speaker 3: More natural because, you know, we spent so many

00:27:04
months and so many years now with the macarons, so we kind of

00:27:08
really know everything about it and, yeah, we have such

00:27:12
experience in it. We saw that the competitors were doing

00:27:15
things differently, because I ordered from every competitors

00:27:19
that we have and, for example, I knew for a fact that they

00:27:22
weren't shipping fresh. You know it was shipping frozen and we

00:27:26
are shipping fresh. So that's like a big difference that we

00:27:29
are making and I can tell if something's fresh or not. You

00:27:32
know. It's like when you go to the restaurant if you I don't

00:27:35
know if you buy a steak or a fish, you know if it's fresh or

00:27:38
not by looking at your plates at some point of experience that

00:27:42
you have. So, with our experience, it was easier to

00:27:47
develop this blog post because our product is really authentic,

00:27:51
you know, fresh and all that. So we know the difference

00:27:54
between what's done the right way and the other way. So, yeah,

00:27:58
you know we had kind of the answer and we really wanted to

00:28:01
dig deep into each topic as well . It's very important to rank to

00:28:04
. You know, show your expertise.

00:28:08
Speaker 1: And so did you personally write those blog

00:28:09
posts. Did your wife help out, or?

00:28:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, for example, why are macarons

00:28:16
expensive? That's an easy one, of course. You can answer in one

00:28:19
sentence, but you wanna elaborate on those. So, for

00:28:22
example, it's because of the recipe that's hard to make. It's

00:28:25
not because of the ingredients, it's more because of the

00:28:29
process of it, you know.

00:28:30
Speaker 2: So these kind of things I can do it by myself

00:28:34
some more.

00:28:35
Speaker 3: I would say touchy topics like how can you tell if

00:28:39
it's fresh or frozen, or how do you rate frozen macarons, things

00:28:44
like that. This way we can talk together with my wife and say,

00:28:48
okay, what are the different points, that you can make a

00:28:51
difference between the frozen macarons and the fresh one. So

00:28:54
for example you have a little layer of white of water on top.

00:28:59
It's partly frozen before it because it's coming from the

00:29:01
towing process. You know, once it was frozen then it release

00:29:04
water when it come back to the normal states. So that's the

00:29:08
first point. The second point you might have like a lose of

00:29:10
crunch of the outer shell because the water will wet the

00:29:14
macarons shell, you know. So you will lose that little crunch

00:29:17
that you have on the outside of the shell. You know all these

00:29:20
little points we go deep into it to really explain people that

00:29:25
are interested about this question so they can leave the

00:29:28
blog post with everything answered, you know.

00:29:31
Speaker 1: Got it and over the course of time, how many of

00:29:33
these blog posts have you written?

00:29:37
Speaker 3: Good question, probably 50 to 100, maybe. I try

00:29:41
to tend to do quality, you know , over quantity I don't wanna.

00:29:45
We want to rank, so we really want a quality. Especially

00:29:48
nowadays with the competition, you need to make a difference

00:29:52
with your expertise. So that's why I try to really take more

00:29:57
time maybe, but have a good piece. You know that answer

00:30:00
really the question in deep.

00:30:01
Speaker 1: So it sounds like when you wrote the blog post

00:30:04
this is more when you launched the strategy. So over a certain

00:30:07
point in time you pretty much were able to create all the blog

00:30:11
posts to answer all those questions about macaron, correct

00:30:15
? So I'm assuming at some point you stopped. Maybe you started

00:30:18
to revise older blog posts, republish them, but at some

00:30:22
point you had enough content. Is that correct?

00:30:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah yeah, so today, for example yeah, we kind

00:30:29
of answered most of people's questions. Of course we kind of

00:30:32
ran out of questions, but yeah, so Samrush helped, google helped

00:30:37
, but also our customers online helped, because we noticed like

00:30:41
a couple of questions were asking, you know, like our

00:30:44
customers. So you know, if everybody's asking this, let me

00:30:48
do a blog post about it and then sort this for once and maybe

00:30:52
send people to this blog post to dig into this subject. But yeah

00:30:56
, at some point we ran out of questions to answer. But you can

00:31:00
always for example, I'm trying now to answer questions related

00:31:06
to other French pastries what is a bonbon? You know people are

00:31:09
asking about this question as well, so I'm trying to, you know

00:31:13
, give my expertise of what is it? Things related to general

00:31:18
topics as well. I can do as long as I can, you know, place our

00:31:22
product into it so it can be related, for example, like

00:31:26
related to holiday gifts five best holiday gifts. This is like

00:31:30
a big keyword, but it's always good to try to give your intake

00:31:35
of this one. So, yeah, it's hard to keep focus, you know, on the

00:31:40
business because we already answered all questions, but now

00:31:44
we are looking, like you know, for new topics that we can

00:31:46
relate to it.

00:31:48
Speaker 1: So what has been you've been blogging, then since

00:31:51
2019, 2020?

00:31:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say so.

00:31:56
Speaker 1: And so what has been the impact? If you were to look

00:31:58
at, for instance, your website traffic, would you say an

00:32:02
overwhelming majority comes from search.

00:32:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the organic search are really the

00:32:07
first one, because we currently, today and since a while now, we

00:32:11
don't even do Facebook ads, for example. So Google ads we do,

00:32:17
but you know it's with the competition these days it's

00:32:21
harder to convert. So you know most of our traffic is organic.

00:32:25
The good thing is you get more traffic so people get to know

00:32:28
you more. But you know when you answer not buying intake

00:32:31
keywords like informational keywords even if people have

00:32:36
their answer, you know, to their questions, they will leave your

00:32:40
website, so it will drop your conversion rate and now our job

00:32:45
is really to try to hook them, you know, to an offer before

00:32:50
they leave, or you know things like that.

00:32:53
Speaker 1: So that's the new challenge after that, conversion

00:32:56
rate optimization right. So would you say, as far as the

00:32:59
impact on sales, what impact do you think the organic that the

00:33:04
blog content has had, or do you just see it's generated a lot of

00:33:07
traffic but not necessarily sales?

00:33:10
Speaker 3: No, I would say the sales is hard to track because

00:33:14
most people that I would say come from the blog post don't

00:33:18
necessarily buy right away.

00:33:20
Speaker 2: They buy maybe weeks or months later, maybe in

00:33:23
December for the holiday season, and they wrote the article

00:33:26
maybe back in February, so it's kind of hard to track.

00:33:29
Speaker 3: So it's always the same with SEO it's like a long

00:33:35
run strategy but overall it spreads like brand awareness. So

00:33:42
it's always good to have organic traffic. Really, people

00:33:45
know you, even if they don't buy from you. They can always

00:33:48
relate someone to your business because you answer their

00:33:52
questions in a very expert way. So, yeah, how to track, but

00:33:57
definitely worth doing for sure.

00:34:01
Speaker 1: Got it? What are the other things that you think,

00:34:03
from a digital marketing perspective, have been impactful

00:34:05
for your business? So you mentioned Google ads. You

00:34:08
mentioned doing Facebook ads. Before you obviously have built

00:34:11
an email list, probably done other organic social media, I'm

00:34:14
assuming. How does this all fit together? Where do you see what

00:34:19
activities have had the most impact?

00:34:21
Speaker 3: if you were to sort of summarize, the one thing that

00:34:24
I would SEO for me is really the first thing, because it's

00:34:27
really the base of your business . What I wanted to in the

00:34:32
beginning I didn't want to rely on ads because, especially

00:34:35
because of, for example, ios 14 and all that that you can't

00:34:39
really track now anymore. You know there's sales coming from

00:34:43
Facebook. So for me, seo is really the first thing to work

00:34:46
on early to show your expertise, and it's also a good way to

00:34:52
show people that you know your product and you are an expert

00:34:55
because you can explain things related to it. So really, the

00:34:59
SEO is would be the first, for me the first base of every

00:35:03
business. Over the years You're going to keep having traffic

00:35:06
from this blog post of this SEO effort that you made, which is

00:35:11
not necessarily the case in ads. As I said after that, we also

00:35:17
we are doing Google ads. That's great because people are looking

00:35:20
for something and you are advertising them for something

00:35:23
that they are searching, compared to Facebook, where

00:35:27
you're just scrolling your stuff , looking at things and, oh, you

00:35:30
have a product, but you are not in demand in the beginning,

00:35:34
which is different for Google. So that's why I always try to

00:35:36
focus more on Google. Seo is Google, google and Microsoft,

00:35:40
but mostly Google. So that's the second thing. Google ads is

00:35:44
great too. And then over time it's really to have a strategy

00:35:48
to build your email and SMS list with a good offer on your

00:35:53
website, because over time, if your product is great and you do

00:35:59
good customer service and people like what you are doing,

00:36:01
you're going to be able to retarget for Christmas new types

00:36:06
of macarons, new flavors, new colors. Now we can print any

00:36:10
logo, any photo on macarons. So over time you're going to be

00:36:16
like your audience, like customer audience. That is

00:36:20
really important and important part today of our revenue. It's

00:36:25
people that are coming back from years or maybe months. Yeah,

00:36:30
over the years, it's going to be more and more important.

00:36:34
Speaker 1: On the email side. I'm assuming you're using Clavio

00:36:37
, since you're on Shopify. Yes, have you played around with lots

00:36:40
of different flows? Are you doing a lot of automations or is

00:36:43
it pretty standard abandoned shopping cart every month? Have

00:36:47
some sort of promo. What's the current state.

00:36:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you do have the classic ones, because you

00:36:55
can't miss them. It's like abandoned cart, of course, when

00:36:58
you have like a? birthday, happy birthday flow. That is good too

00:37:01
. People, once they order, they can enter their birthday checkup

00:37:07
and when their birthday is coming up, we send them an email

00:37:10
for 12 macarons free for their order. So that's a good one too.

00:37:15
But yeah, so we have a couple of flows like that. I want to

00:37:20
make sure to also don't do promo . We never do discount almost

00:37:26
never, maybe Black Friday but because for me it kind of

00:37:31
decrease your rent, kind of, I prefer to send things like okay,

00:37:37
seven, three macarons for orders over X, better than 10%,

00:37:43
20%, because it kind of discounted rent. So our approach

00:37:47
to it is really giving away something if you buy something,

00:37:52
but not like giving a percentage off or something like that. So

00:37:56
that's our approach to it. Makes a lot of sense.

00:38:00
Speaker 1: What about, so I guess, the only other missing

00:38:02
piece. You mentioned the difference in Google ads and

00:38:04
Facebook ads, which I completely agree. What about organic

00:38:08
social media? I see like beautiful images up on Instagram

00:38:11
, so is that been an important part? Is that just something

00:38:14
that you feel is important to communicate, or what has that

00:38:18
role been?

00:38:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the Instagram part of it is. It was

00:38:24
fun. We grew organically as well from zero to 100 followers.

00:38:28
In the very beginning, what we did was really sharing secret

00:38:34
tips showing the backstage of it , since it's very colorful and

00:38:38
all that. It was pretty popular. And what really helped us grow

00:38:43
as well is the online class that we started to do during COVID.

00:38:48
We were doing virtual classes to have people make macarons at

00:38:52
home and we were sharing secret tips on the Instagram and that

00:38:57
also grew our community very well. But the counterpart of

00:39:01
that Instagram you know following and all that is that

00:39:04
at the end is really Instagram algorithm. You know that control

00:39:08
if your content is being sent in front of people, feeds and

00:39:12
stuff. So sometimes you see a post decreasing. You don't know

00:39:18
why. Sometimes one is doing amazingly well. You don't know

00:39:21
really why.

00:39:22
Speaker 2: You know, there is that part that you don't really

00:39:24
control.

00:39:25
Speaker 3: So that's the part that you don't control, but on

00:39:28
the other side it gives a pretty good, I would say backstage

00:39:32
idea for customers. So, you know , if they are on Instagram, they

00:39:36
can go there and see what you are doing. You know, on the

00:39:39
website we have some pictures, but in there we have videos of

00:39:42
the making process and all that. So you know it gives more

00:39:46
legitimacy to your business.

00:39:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, just sharing some of that with our audience,

00:39:50
you could see just how beautiful , very high quality, very

00:39:54
engaging. You know Instagram posts. You mentioned during

00:39:57
COVID that you were doing. You know these virtual classes on

00:40:01
cooking, so how did that work? Were you doing Instagram lives?

00:40:04
Basically, Were you using your email list and bringing people

00:40:07
into like a Facebook live environment, or how did that

00:40:11
work?

00:40:12
Speaker 3: So it was more like we used our you know Instagram

00:40:15
and our community to promote our virtual class. So it was a

00:40:20
buying product. You know it was like $79 for the ticket and got

00:40:26
it. Yeah, so we were promoting it. We were using Instagram to

00:40:30
promote it so, you know, sharing secrets and stuff like parts of

00:40:34
it and say, okay, if you're interested for the whole process

00:40:36
, you can subscribe to the class . It's going to be like in two

00:40:38
weeks you know this part of things and we were doing the

00:40:41
class on Zoom, like on Saturday. Also for example, we have one

00:40:45
coming for Halloween this Saturday, okay. So yeah, we were

00:40:50
really using Instagram as a way to promote these classes, but

00:40:54
it wasn't live on Instagram really, because our objective

00:40:58
was really to have, you know, buying, intense, buying people

00:41:03
for the tickets for the class, because you know it's very

00:41:06
valuable, what we have to share, and, of course, you can't

00:41:09
always give it away for free.

00:41:11
Speaker 1: And where do you, how do you facilitate the classes

00:41:13
then? Is it just over Zoom?

00:41:15
Speaker 3: They buy the ticket, then they get the link, or yes,

00:41:18
so you have the ticket then just the day before, so for example,

00:41:23
tomorrow, because this class is Saturday tomorrow and we send

00:41:26
to everyone that purchase the tickets and we send the link and

00:41:29
the password and what we do is we remain a custom class,

00:41:33
because making macarons takes days in reality, but we had to

00:41:37
make it fit into one hour, you know, to make sure people have

00:41:41
doesn't stay forever, right. So we compacted the recipe. We, you

00:41:46
know like things, like you have to wait for the shells to dry.

00:41:50
We already have another batch that's already dried from few

00:41:53
hours ago. You know, we kind of have all the step compacted in

00:41:56
one hour and so for one hour, just, you know, people see live

00:42:01
what we are doing. That's why we don't advise to bake at the

00:42:04
same time, because it's like I said, it's a long process. So

00:42:07
it's better to watch, take a note, and at the end we answer

00:42:10
every single question that you know our customer might have.

00:42:15
Speaker 1: Got. It Makes a lot of sense. So what would you say

00:42:18
then to the role that organic social? So yeah, I mean a

00:42:21
hundred thousand followers on Instagram. I think a lot of

00:42:23
businesses would die for that sort of coverage and happen all

00:42:26
organically. That that in itself is its own. You know case study

00:42:29
and success story, but how do you think that has impacted your

00:42:33
business?

00:42:34
Speaker 3: You know, it kind of gives us legitimate business.

00:42:38
You know. It gives you, I would say, an impact saying, okay,

00:42:43
you're not just another online e-commerce. When people see your

00:42:47
following and your content on Instagram, they realize, okay,

00:42:51
you guys are serious and you sharing good stuff. So it gives

00:42:55
you like a business card. I would say, you know, it's like a

00:42:58
validation business card. I would say so it gives you a good

00:43:02
reputation. It gives you, you know, a way to share the

00:43:06
background, like I said, but it's always showing, okay, you

00:43:10
guys are really who you say you are and you're doing great stuff

00:43:14
from what we are seeing. You know, so it's really like a

00:43:16
validation.

00:43:18
Speaker 1: And it looks like your approach to content was

00:43:20
less about like promotion and more about just showcase what

00:43:25
you're doing.

00:43:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because it's. You know it's a very

00:43:29
colorful cookie so it's really impactful to the eye. So that's

00:43:35
part of it too. You know it's good to see this kind of thing.

00:43:39
So we share the backgrounds of it because, you know, my parents

00:43:42
are like a challenge for most people because it's very

00:43:46
complicated to make. So people are always like eager to get

00:43:50
some tips. So we share the tips part but we share also, you know

00:43:54
, like the new season coming, new flavor. You know kind of all

00:43:58
the background news and I really wanted to make it about

00:44:01
the business and not about us. I know you know some other

00:44:05
business or competitors. They like to showcase themselves and

00:44:08
stuff, but that's not our approach to it. I really wanted

00:44:11
to be product centered, product centered background. You know

00:44:16
secrets about the recipe. What do we do really about the

00:44:19
macarons itself? Less than us, you know.

00:44:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a fantastic approach, and I think

00:44:24
that's where a lot of businesses really struggle. I guess you

00:44:27
were sort of lucky in that your product is very visually

00:44:30
attractive to begin with and very colorful. Yeah, it's a

00:44:34
visual network like that. So, anthony, is there anything you

00:44:38
know? Looking back, you've been doing this for several years.

00:44:40
You're still building the business. Is there anything that

00:44:43
you might have done differently or anything that you plan to

00:44:47
change in your strategy over the next six to 12 months?

00:44:52
Speaker 3: The change that we are doing right now is that we

00:44:54
were very focused on business to customer. You know, direct to

00:44:58
customer. So, for example, you have an event and you want

00:45:02
macarons for your event, you're ordering, we're shipping to you

00:45:05
and that's it. That's, you know, business to customer. Now we

00:45:09
are focusing a bit more about business to business. There are

00:45:13
corporates, events, corporate gifts, for example, for the

00:45:16
holiday season coming. We are having lots of requests about

00:45:20
that. Like you know, people want to print their logo on the

00:45:24
macarons for Netflix, for example, and they want to send

00:45:27
it to their employees or their clients, and we do that as well.

00:45:32
So I'm focusing on this part of the business as well. Now, you

00:45:36
know, to have both aspects to it . So that's really our main

00:45:39
focus towards the end of year, for example.

00:45:42
Speaker 1: Oh, wow, so that's gonna take an entirely different

00:45:44
marketing strategy. I'm assuming it's a lot of

00:45:46
prospecting, working with distributors and yeah, yeah,

00:45:50
yeah, for example, I'm trying on LinkedIn, which is more like a

00:45:54
business profile.

00:45:56
Speaker 3: So on this one, you can target, like event planners,

00:46:00
at specific companies, so this is perfectly for them. You know

00:46:05
your approaches. My approach is, like you know, sending free

00:46:08
samples and, you know, knowing that the holiday gift season is

00:46:11
coming is the perfect timing right now to try that. So, yeah,

00:46:15
I'm really focusing on this aspect right now.

00:46:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome, anthony. This has been just a

00:46:20
wealth of knowledge and experience, so thank you so much

00:46:23
for sharing. I'm assuming that if our viewers and listeners are

00:46:28
getting hungry listening to this and they wanna try your

00:46:30
macarons, I'm assuming we have a link up here on the screen.

00:46:34
Pastries P-A-S-T-R-E-E-Zcom is where we should send them.

00:46:38
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's the website and we have.

00:46:43
I don't know when you will be live with this one, but we have

00:46:46
new season of flavor every month . Now we have Halloween, but we

00:46:49
do have also Christmas flavor. It's Valentine's, like heart

00:46:52
shaped macarons for Valentine's.

00:46:54
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I mean we have new stuff every month Very

00:46:57
cool, and I'm just showing people your website here. I see

00:47:00
you have Halloween macarons for those that see this. In time,

00:47:04
you have the pop up seven free macarons today only really smart

00:47:07
, great way of getting people on the list and, hopefully, the

00:47:11
conversion rate optimization. So , yeah, very cool, very

00:47:14
attractive. I hope people listening or watching will check

00:47:17
it out. Once again, it is pastriescom P-A-S-T-R-E-E-Zcom.

00:47:24
Anthony. Anywhere else we should send people Instagram, tiktok.

00:47:27
What would Instagram be? The big social media channel for you?

00:47:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's our big one. We mostly

00:47:33
share the background of it, like I said, and the process of it.

00:47:37
And, for example, we had a, I think, for Christmas. We're

00:47:39
gonna do that as well, but for Halloween we have a cool contest

00:47:44
. So every Halloween orders we introduce randomly in orders

00:47:50
Hocus Pocus, Macarons 21. And if you find one, you just have to

00:47:54
post us on your story on Instagram and you get like a

00:47:58
free 24 macarons extra. So we're gonna probably do that as well

00:48:02
on Christmas, since it's doing well for Halloween.

00:48:05
Speaker 1: That's really really smart, Anthony. Thank you so

00:48:07
much. I hope everyone will check out pastries. I wish you the

00:48:10
best luck and hopefully our paths will cross, because we're

00:48:13
only like an hour away from each other.

00:48:14
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree.

00:48:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, macarons our whole family loves them, so

00:48:18
we'll have to check them out.

00:48:20
Speaker 3: For sure. Thanks for sharing me. It's always a

00:48:22
pleasure to share.

00:48:23
Speaker 1: All right, well, that is the library of content,

00:48:26
especially focusing on non-branded content, the library

00:48:28
of content in action, and if it can work for a B2C e-commerce

00:48:32
brand, you bet it can work for B2B or any other B2C brand.

00:48:36
That's why, for me, the library of content is the first of the

00:48:40
chapters that I'm going to have on teaching SEO in the book, and

00:48:44
I think it's actually the most important. If you don't have the

00:48:47
content, you can't rank. It really is that simple how you

00:48:50
create that content, the keywords that you decide to

00:48:53
target. There's a science, there's an art. I'm going to go

00:48:55
into more depth. I'm going to have some workbook exercises

00:48:58
around this as well. That I worked on last night actually,

00:49:00
so really can't wait to talk about that. Make sure you stay

00:49:04
in the loop. Sign up to my newsletter neilshaffercom slash

00:49:08
newsletters that when I launch my launch team, you'll be one of

00:49:11
the first to know. All right, well, I want to thank you all

00:49:15
for your subscriptions, for your reviews on the various podcast

00:49:20
apps that you listen to this on, as well as those of you that

00:49:22
tagged me on social media talking about this podcast. I

00:49:25
really appreciate it. It is the gasoline that fuels my engine,

00:49:29
so thank you, thank you, thank you, and that is it for another

00:49:33
episode of your digital marketing coach podcast. I will

00:49:36
be here next week with a solo show, and I haven't decided yet.

00:49:42
Often the topics for solo shows come very much at the moment,

00:49:46
but I'm thinking of next week, talking about creators and

00:49:52
entrepreneurs and the relationship between the two. In

00:49:55
fact, I've been talking a lot about since I wrote books and

00:49:58
started a blog back in 2008, 2009,. I and many others like me

00:50:02
are the original content creators. Content creation is

00:50:05
not just audio video, and content creators, if they really

00:50:09
want to take their work seriously, need to develop a

00:50:12
business, need to think like entrepreneurs and, in fact,

00:50:16
businesses, in their content creation, should be thinking

00:50:19
more like content creators, and they already know that they're

00:50:21
entrepreneurs. So there's an interesting overlap between

00:50:24
these concepts that I want to dig in deeper. Just stay tuned

00:50:27
the next week We'll talk then. This is your digital marketing

00:50:29
coach, neil Schaefer, signing off.

00:50:33
Speaker 2: You've been listening to your digital marketing coach

00:50:35
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00:50:40
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00:50:53
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00:51:00
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00:51:04
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