Meet Mellissa Green, also known as "Uniquely Abled," whose journey into content creation was fueled by her passion for podcasts and the need to stay connected during the COVID-19 pandemic. Mellissa's story is a powerful testament to resilience and the role digital platforms play in bridging gaps for those with impairments. This episode sheds light on the importance of fostering better understanding and accessibility in the digital world, emphasizing the real-life impact of inclusive practices.
We dive deep into the critical importance of digital accessibility, highlighting the ongoing challenges faced by individuals using screen readers like JAWS. Hear Mellissa's candid accounts of navigating various platforms, from the frustrations with inaccessible sites like Facebook to the praise for more accessible ones like LinkedIn and Twitter. We also explore the broader implications of creating inclusive digital spaces, emphasizing both the ethical and economic incentives for businesses to prioritize accessibility. Tune in to understand why ensuring digital content is accessible to all is not just good business but a fundamental right.
Guest Links
Sign up to be informed of when my Kickstarter for Digital Threads launches here; https://nealschaffer.com/kickstarter
Learn More:
- Join My Digital First Mastermind: https://nealschaffer.com/membership/
- Learn about My Fractional CMO Consulting Services: https://nealschaffer.com/cmo
- Download My Free Ebooks Here: https://nealschaffer.com/freebies/
- Subscribe to my YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/nealschaffer
- All My Podcast Show Notes: https://podcast.nealschaffer.com
Speaker 1: In today's digital world, accessibility is not just
00:00:03
a feature, it is a necessity.
00:00:06
But how often do we consider the barriers faced by content
00:00:10
creators and consumers and social media users with
00:00:14
disabilities?
00:00:15
Enter the insightful world of Melissa Green, a visually
00:00:19
impaired content maven who is unlocking the secrets of digital
00:00:23
accessibility for all of us.
00:00:24
Content maven who is unlocking the secrets of digital
00:00:26
accessibility for all of us, from the mishaps of screen
00:00:28
readers to the nuances of AI and content creation.
00:00:29
Melissa's journey challenges us to rethink our online spaces,
00:00:37
learn the do's and don'ts of inclusive digital environments
00:00:39
and discover how embracing accessibility can unlock
00:00:41
untapped markets and innovation in our businesses.
00:00:44
This is a conversation that will transform not just your
00:00:47
digital strategy, but also your perspective on the power of
00:00:50
inclusive content creation.
00:00:52
So stay tuned to this next episode of the your Digital
00:00:55
Marketing Coach podcast.
00:00:58
Speaker 2: Digital social media content, influencer marketing,
00:01:01
blogging, podcasting, vlogging, tiktoking, linkedin, twitter,
00:01:05
facebook, instagram, youtube, seo, sem, ppc, email marketing
00:01:13
there's a lot to cover.
00:01:14
Whether you're a marketing professional, entrepreneur or
00:01:17
business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert
00:01:21
advice.
00:01:22
Good thing you've got Neil on your side, because Neil Schaefer
00:01:27
is your digital marketing coach , helping you grow your business
00:01:35
with digital first marketing, one episode at a time.
00:01:38
This is your digital marketing coach and this is Neil Schaefer
00:01:47
is your digital marketing coach, and this is Neil Schafer.
00:01:50
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, this is Neil Schafer, your digital
00:01:52
marketing coach, and welcome to episode number 369 of this
00:01:54
podcast.
00:01:54
Before we get to today's interview, I always like to go
00:01:56
over the industry news as well as my personal news.
00:02:00
So in industry news, if you talk to a lot of people about AI
00:02:05
news, so in industry news, if you talk to a lot of people
00:02:07
about AI, I'm going to guess that, in addition to ChatGPT,
00:02:09
you are slowly hearing more and more about a competitor called
00:02:12
Claude.
00:02:12
Claude is an AI tool that is put out by a company called
00:02:17
Anthropic that Amazon has actually heavily invested in,
00:02:20
and their latest upgrade, which is version 3.5, sonnet, seems to
00:02:26
be winning over a lot of people .
00:02:28
The free version seems to be as good as ChachiBT's paid version
00:02:33
, but, more importantly, it seems to have a more
00:02:36
conversational, human tone when you use it.
00:02:39
I have been talking about testing out Claude.
00:02:42
I've yet to do it myself, but every time I talk to another
00:02:46
expert who says, hey, have you tried Cloud Gets me one step
00:02:48
further.
00:02:49
So that is something that, if you are using AI tools, if
00:02:52
you're using ChatGPT now, you can A-B test, see what it's like
00:02:55
with Cloud.
00:02:56
The distinction really seems to be that ChatGPT is more for,
00:02:59
like, business type copy, whereas Cloud is more of that
00:03:03
human or even people facing content.
00:03:06
So something to consider.
00:03:08
If you've tried it out, if you've compared, I'd love to
00:03:10
hear from you and maybe that's another podcast episode I need
00:03:12
to do of actually comparing these two technologies.
00:03:16
Also, in the SEO world, google has ended continuous scroll SERP
00:03:20
, so you used to be able to scroll and if you kept scrolling
00:03:24
, you'd see continuous results.
00:03:26
Before that, google always had these pages.
00:03:28
We say we want to appear on page one of the search results
00:03:31
because they limited each page to 10 results.
00:03:33
Well, now they've basically gone back to that and there's a
00:03:36
lot of people that are trying to read a lot of different things
00:03:39
into it.
00:03:40
When I do searches on Google these days, I'm finding that
00:03:42
more and more pages don't have those generative AI search
00:03:45
results, and there was also just a tweet the other day where
00:03:49
some people from Google apologized saying, hey, we make
00:03:51
mistakes too.
00:03:52
So I think that Google is really in the middle of doing a
00:03:55
lot of soul searching and maybe they found that they're losing
00:03:58
market share.
00:03:59
Maybe they found that the people that are on the platform
00:04:01
aren't clicking on as many ads as they used to do.
00:04:03
Whatever it is, I don't think the verdict is in on what is
00:04:10
going on there.
00:04:11
So definitely some area of news that I think there's going to
00:04:12
be a lot of movement on over the next few weeks, if not few
00:04:14
months, but definitely something to keep your eye on.
00:04:17
And every social network is fighting for attention, and
00:04:20
Pinterest is always one of those that has a very, very popular
00:04:23
crowd.
00:04:23
Doesn't have the amount of users that an Instagrammer or a
00:04:27
TikTok has, obviously, but it still has its heavy users.
00:04:30
And now they have introduced a way to transform a board into a
00:04:35
video inspired by Gen Z trends.
00:04:38
So still a big fan of Pinterest .
00:04:40
Actually, pinterest, because of the number of people using the
00:04:43
social network, formerly known as Twitter, has gone down.
00:04:46
I'm finding Pinterest is now a solid number one in referring
00:04:49
social traffic to my website, neilschafercom.
00:04:51
So if you haven't looked at Pinterest recently, well, this
00:04:54
is another reason to look at Pinterest.
00:04:57
So those are the things that I have my eye on in the industry
00:05:00
that I want to report back to you on From a personal
00:05:03
perspective.
00:05:03
Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, you are on my newsletter.
00:05:06
If you are not, please go to neilschafercom slash newsletter
00:05:10
where, just a few days ago, I announced my fifth book, which
00:05:14
is going to be called Digital Threads the small business and
00:05:18
entrepreneur digital first marketing playbook.
00:05:21
So ecstatic about this book, I've sort of teased you about it
00:05:24
over the last several weeks.
00:05:25
I am going to be launching this on Kickstarter and now I have a
00:05:29
pre-launch campaign up on Kickstarter, meaning that if you
00:05:33
sign up, you will be informed when the Kickstarter launches,
00:05:37
which is important because on the first 24 hours I'm going to
00:05:41
have a lot of special deals, certain things you can only get
00:05:44
during those first 24 hours, as well as a lot of discounts.
00:05:47
So the first step since a lot of people say, neil, how can I
00:05:51
support you, how can I get my hands in your book the first
00:05:53
step is to go to neilschafercom slash Kickstarter Now.
00:05:57
If you are already on my newsletter, you would have
00:05:59
gotten this on Friday, june 28th , but if not, I detail how I am
00:06:03
launching a launch team for my book and I'm gonna be giving a
00:06:07
lot of value to those that join my team and I have a few asks.
00:06:10
And really the first step in joining, or potentially joining,
00:06:14
that team is to sign up for the updates for the pre-launch
00:06:18
campaign.
00:06:18
So make sure you go to neilschafercom slash Kickstarter
00:06:21
.
00:06:21
If you go to any one of my social profiles, you should see
00:06:28
the link in my profile.
00:06:29
You know, when you want to promote something, you want to
00:06:30
promote it everywhere, including this podcast.
00:06:31
So I look forward to welcome you in my street team, but at
00:06:34
least I want to make sure that you have the option.
00:06:36
By signing up to that list for the prelaunch, you are not
00:06:39
committing to funding or buying any copies of the book.
00:06:41
It is just a sign of interest.
00:06:43
But since you know the way that algorithms work, it is a
00:06:46
crucial step in letting the Kickstarter algorithm know that
00:06:49
there is a lot of demand for this book and if they see that,
00:06:52
they will introduce my book to more of their backers, thus
00:06:56
introducing digital threads to a lot larger audience.
00:06:59
So that is why I have that ask and there's going to be another
00:07:01
ask, and if you read that newsletter, you will understand
00:07:04
what it is.
00:07:05
If you didn't and you're interested, just make sure you
00:07:07
sign up at neilschafercom slash Kickstarter and you'll get all
00:07:10
the information about what that entails.
00:07:14
All right, so today's interview is with a very special guest,
00:07:17
melissa Green.
00:07:18
Melissa is a pen name for someone that has been in my
00:07:21
digital first mastermind since day one.
00:07:24
She is one of my precious founding members.
00:07:26
Melissa is also someone who, I believe, at about six months,
00:07:31
went completely blind.
00:07:32
So this is a content creator that works with screen readers
00:07:37
and you'll learn a lot about them during this episode who is
00:07:41
launching a podcast, launching a YouTube channel, writing books,
00:07:45
doing amazing things and really with this mission of not only
00:07:51
informing those people that don't have to live with what she
00:07:54
has to live with what it's like and the benefits for businesses
00:07:57
to actually understand that, but also for other people, and
00:08:01
she calls her social media handles uniquely abled for all
00:08:04
those that also have unique talents to really talk more
00:08:07
about them, bring them out into the world, serve other people,
00:08:10
and she is doing an amazing job of doing that, and it's been
00:08:13
amazing to see her grow.
00:08:14
So I'm really excited and honored that she is on the
00:08:18
podcast today, because I have learned a heck of a lot about
00:08:21
digital accessibility through her, and I think you're going to
00:08:23
learn a lot as well.
00:08:24
So I also think that you're just going to applaud Melissa on
00:08:28
everything she's done until now and on her future plan.
00:08:30
So, without further ado.
00:08:32
Here is my interview with Melissa Green.
00:08:34
Speaker 2: You're listening to your Digital Marketing Coach.
00:08:37
This is Neil Schaefer.
00:08:43
Speaker 1: Welcome to another live stream edition of the your
00:08:46
Digital Marketing Coach podcast.
00:08:48
So it was back in the days of the coronavirus pandemic, when I
00:08:53
was on Twitter as I normally am and I still prefer to call
00:08:56
Twitter and there was someone who was tweeting at me asking
00:09:01
about my new book, the Age of Influence, which was new at the
00:09:03
time, and she was asking you know, is there an audio book
00:09:07
available?
00:09:07
And I said, absolutely, there is an audio book available.
00:09:09
And you know, she listened to the audio book and we kept in
00:09:13
touch and then, when I launched my digital first mastermind
00:09:16
community, she was one of my founding members and in her
00:09:19
words, she felt that she needed to represent those people that
00:09:24
were uniquely abled.
00:09:25
Now, my guest today, melissa Green she's also known as
00:09:28
uniquely abled is someone that has 100% visual impairment, yet
00:09:33
she is amazing at being a content creator, a fiction
00:09:36
writer, creating audio greeting cards and also working on the
00:09:41
digital accessibility side.
00:09:42
I know that she's currently in training on that and, in fact,
00:09:45
originally, we wanted to use StreamYard to well.
00:09:48
I wanted to use StreamYard to live stream this broadcast to
00:09:51
YouTube, facebook, linkedin, like I normally do, but we were
00:09:55
unable to do that because Melissa was able to log on to
00:09:58
StreamYard, but she was unable to stop her video, whereas on
00:10:02
Zoom she was able to do that.
00:10:04
So that, I think, gives you sort of an introduction to the
00:10:08
world that Melissa and the millions, if not tens of
00:10:12
millions, of other people with various impairments face on a
00:10:15
daily basis in our digital first world.
00:10:18
So I thought it would be a great idea to have Melissa come
00:10:22
on the show and, you know, let us better understand her world
00:10:26
so that we can make a better digital world for everybody.
00:10:29
So, melissa, welcome to the show.
00:10:30
Hi, hopefully I got that story right.
00:10:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, you did, and I don't know if I reviewed that
00:10:38
audio book, but it was an awesome listen.
00:10:41
Speaker 1: Thank you.
00:10:41
Well, you know, in all disclaimer I was not the voice
00:10:45
actor for that, it was another voice professional.
00:10:47
But yes, he is excellent, has actually done some audio
00:10:51
narration for some bestselling fiction.
00:10:53
So yeah, I knew I was in good hands.
00:10:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've heard him narrate another book and he
00:10:58
does really good.
00:10:59
I'm jealous.
00:11:02
Speaker 1: Well, you know, going forward, I do plan to narrate
00:11:04
my own book.
00:11:05
So sorry about that, but there is a business model.
00:11:07
But that was published under HarperCollins leadership and
00:11:11
they were the ones who said you know what, let us use a
00:11:13
voiceover.
00:11:13
And it was coronavirus.
00:11:14
You know the pandemic and hard to get into a studio and
00:11:17
everything.
00:11:17
So, melissa, I guess let's just get started with your journey.
00:11:22
And you know, I believe you're a content creator like all of us
00:11:30
, yet you are completely visually impaired.
00:11:31
So what initially sparked your passion for content creation,
00:11:33
despite the challenges that you face, I mean very, very brave,
00:11:37
very passionate to have gotten this far.
00:11:39
So you know how did it all start?
00:11:42
Speaker 3: I guess I started listening to podcasts.
00:11:44
Like you know, I am a fan of Joanna Penn and your podcast too
00:11:50
, which I need to get back to listening to and of course,
00:11:52
since then I've subscribed to a bunch of other different
00:11:54
podcasts.
00:11:55
So I started listening to podcasts and then COVID took off
00:12:08
and I was like I guess I need to do a podcast too.
00:12:10
I couldn't have my face-to-face meetings with my support group
00:12:13
or anything.
00:12:13
We couldn't do that.
00:12:14
At the time I was working with DJ Ability, who actually had a
00:12:22
sister who's deaf.
00:12:25
Her sister is no longer with us, but I'm sorry to hear that yeah
00:12:28
, I think her sister had other health challenges too, so, but,
00:12:32
um, she had a sister who was deaf and so she is, as they
00:12:38
would say in my training course, an accessibility champion, and
00:12:43
so we kind of started doing some things together.
00:12:45
I was doing some brief interning with her for a while,
00:12:49
started kind of helping her with her, her magazine that she and
00:12:53
her sister started, uh, some years back.
00:12:56
I never did get a chance to meet her sister, but anyway, um,
00:13:01
you know, and I guess my thing as far as it's like people who
00:13:06
don't know someone with a disability, they don't want to,
00:13:10
they don't want unless you know someone with a disability, or
00:13:14
like in your case, you met me and we're like well, let's
00:13:16
continue the conversation and we're like oh no, I don't want
00:13:19
to, you know.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: It's a long conversation.
00:13:23
Speaker 3: Yeah right, it's a long conversation.
00:13:25
Yeah right, but a lot of people who don't communicate, who
00:13:29
don't know someone with a disability or they don't have a
00:13:33
disability themselves, they, they have a lot of stereotypes
00:13:38
and we literally just learned about, uh, different models of,
00:13:43
like, the different models dealing with disabilities and it
00:13:46
was really interesting stuff that we just learned about last
00:13:49
week in the training course that I'm taking what's really
00:13:52
interesting.
00:13:52
Speaker 1: I mean you spoke of a few things here, that the power
00:13:55
of podcasts, because you do.
00:13:56
You know I'm a big fan of Joanna Pan, as you know.
00:13:58
I know they were both big fans of Pat Flynn as well.
00:14:01
Yeah, thank you for the reminder.
00:14:02
I have been a little bit more infrequent in my recording a
00:14:05
podcast as I try to finish my book, so thank you for that
00:14:08
reminder.
00:14:09
But the power of podcasts to inspire you to want to start
00:14:13
your own, and especially you know the pandemic.
00:14:15
I mean the pandemic affected us all in very different ways, but
00:14:19
it sounds like there was, there was a positive, which is it
00:14:22
inspired you to create this podcast, that you can keep in
00:14:26
touch with people that you weren't able to physically meet
00:14:28
at the time well, I mean that.
00:14:31
Speaker 3: And then I just wanted I realized you know I
00:14:34
started a podcast and I'm like, okay, everybody seems to be
00:14:38
having this podcast.
00:14:39
I guess I need to join on the bandwagon and join the people
00:14:44
before a podcast becomes like Google Plus, you know.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Yep yep Back in the day.
00:14:51
So what is your typical workflow for creating content
00:14:57
and I guess we'll focus on the podcast, because I think that's
00:15:00
your main focus right now what tools and assistive technologies
00:15:05
do you rely on and I know that this is going to sound like you
00:15:08
know Chinese to a lot of people listening.
00:15:09
I obviously have learned a lot from you being in our group, but
00:15:12
you know what does that look like from your perspective.
00:15:15
When you record a podcast, what is the process that you need to
00:15:17
go through?
00:15:30
Speaker 3: So I have a yeah, it is going to sound like foreign
00:15:33
language to a lot of people, and you know, it's just really
00:15:38
interesting because, of course, in our world, because we use
00:15:42
screen readers and this, that and the other and all this stuff
00:15:45
and tried to tell him that she was visually impaired and he had
00:15:48
no clue what she was talking about.
00:15:50
So she eventually had to say, well, sir, I'm blind, I can't
00:15:53
see.
00:15:54
So it's like we use this language and we just think
00:15:56
everybody knows what we're talking about and when we start
00:15:59
saying we use screen readers and this, that and the other, I
00:16:02
can't tell when they're looking at me.
00:16:04
Weird, you know, right.
00:16:12
So I use a screen reader, which one of these days I'll have to
00:16:14
let you listen to it.
00:16:15
I mean, I have it set for a human-like voice so that it
00:16:16
doesn't sound like a robot.
00:16:19
They do have human-like voices, so I'll have to let you all
00:16:23
listen to what it sounds like.
00:16:24
But I use a screen reader and then I have to, depending on the
00:16:29
platform.
00:16:30
I have to use a platform that is, for the most part,
00:16:35
accessible.
00:16:36
So I found this host Blueberry, which you know has been in the
00:16:40
podcasting space since the beginning, and I've actually
00:16:43
listened to the guy who started the whole the blueberry thing.
00:16:47
Um, I listened to him on podcast and you know, at first I
00:16:52
was working with Pinecast and I mean they were accessible.
00:16:56
But then I started having some issues with some of the episodes
00:17:00
and stuff, like I think it was difficult for me to upload and
00:17:04
stuff, and I was like, okay, I can't, you know, even though
00:17:07
they were very responsible, like I can't really do this.
00:17:10
And so I found Blueberry, because I heard, heard the
00:17:15
interview from Todd and I think.
00:17:18
So I stumbled onto their platform and I've been using
00:17:21
them ever since.
00:17:22
And then I have gold wave, which it's a software that I had
00:17:27
to buy.
00:17:28
I couldn't, you know, it's like with jaws, I had to.
00:17:31
Well, I didn't originally buy my screen reader, but I do have
00:17:35
to keep the maintenance going.
00:17:38
Speaker 1: So, unfortunately, our stuff is a lot, it's not,
00:17:42
it's not cheap so yeah, so jaws is the creator of the screen
00:17:47
reader and I guess then and you know, for those of you that
00:17:51
don't know, I mean accessibility is sort of a term that people
00:17:54
that haven't experienced, you know, talking with people like
00:17:58
yourself there's no emotional attachment, right.
00:18:00
But then you know, in the group we were talking about well,
00:18:04
should we be on circle for well, should we be on Circle for our
00:18:06
group, or should we be on Slack or LinkedIn or Facebook?
00:18:08
You raised your hand and said look, facebook is not accessible
00:18:11
.
00:18:11
What that means for the people listening is, if the software,
00:18:15
if the website, can't be read by the screen reader, it is
00:18:19
invisible to Melissa and all the other millions, if not tens of
00:18:22
millions, of people around the world because the website wasn't
00:18:24
designed in a way to allow the screen reader to read it.
00:18:28
Would that be a fair assessment , melissa?
00:18:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually JAWS is actually the screen
00:18:34
reader.
00:18:34
The company that created JAWS is now called Vispero.
00:18:38
It used to be called Freedom Scientific and I still refer to
00:18:42
them as Freedom.
00:18:42
Scientific but they created a screen reader called JAWS and
00:18:46
they've also created some different products like screen
00:18:50
magnification and different things like that.
00:18:52
For people who use large print, which I don't, I use Braille
00:18:57
and audio.
00:18:58
Speaker 1: Got it.
00:18:59
So, in other words, if the screen reader can't read it, you
00:19:01
can't use it.
00:19:02
So this is why, when people join my digital first mastermind
00:19:05
, you know we've we've avoided Facebook.
00:19:07
Now we finally joined Facebook and provided accommodation for
00:19:11
Melissa as part of that, but for a few years there we we
00:19:14
absolutely avoided it.
00:19:14
And even today, like the whole StreamYard incident, I'll find
00:19:18
the site and then Melissa will be like is it accessible or not?
00:19:21
So I'll like, I'll send her the link and have you check it out.
00:19:23
So yeah, it's a crazy world.
00:19:26
I mean, if people knew that Facebook wasn't accessible,
00:19:29
linkedin was obviously.
00:19:30
You're active on Twitter, slash X as well.
00:19:32
That's accessible.
00:19:34
So, I guess you know I was going to ask you have you encountered
00:19:36
any specific accessibility barriers on platforms you use
00:19:40
for content creation?
00:19:41
So you mentioned the podcast host.
00:19:42
Obviously you are active on LinkedIn, twitter, youtube, so
00:19:50
that hasn't been a problem.
00:19:50
And when you have a problem, like Facebook, you just can't
00:19:51
participate.
00:19:52
And for those of you that are curious, burberry is the old
00:19:54
school podcast solution Actually , they were the biggest for
00:19:57
WordPress.
00:19:58
They have a dedicated WordPress plugin.
00:19:59
So instead of subscribing to a podcast host, like I do with
00:20:02
Buzzsprout, you do it through your WordPress site with
00:20:06
Burberry.
00:20:07
That's a great tool.
00:20:08
So thanks for that reminder.
00:20:09
Yeah, so I guess obviously you know this has shaped your
00:20:13
perspective on digital accessibility.
00:20:16
I think and we talk about this like you have two sides.
00:20:18
One is you want to raise awareness in the whole world,
00:20:22
for you know what you have to do in the whole world for what you
00:20:25
have to do, but on the other hand, you're also taking this
00:20:27
training to learn how to serve businesses that want to become
00:20:30
more accessible.
00:20:31
So I guess, tell us your experiences, because I know that
00:20:35
you have actually reached out to many businesses and said, hey
00:20:39
, your website's not accessible, or what have you.
00:20:41
How have those experiences been , I guess I want to ask you.
00:20:45
Speaker 3: A freaking nightmare.
00:20:50
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to hear.
00:20:51
So I mean, let us know, Melissa , this is your platform.
00:20:55
Speaker 3: There have been some companies who say well, we'll
00:20:58
let our product manager know, and then I don't ever hear from
00:21:01
anybody again, and so it's like are you all listening to me or
00:21:06
what I mean?
00:21:07
Certain companies like Blueberry, they will respond
00:21:11
right away, they will fix things , like okay, like I have a
00:21:14
website, now my website is connected.
00:21:17
I mean, it's not on WordPress, but it's connected to WordPress
00:21:21
in that it's using WordPress as the the platform but my website
00:21:27
is hosted through HostGator.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: Okay, and.
00:21:30
Speaker 3: HostGator is very accessible.
00:21:32
In fact.
00:21:32
Now I did not have to tell them this.
00:21:34
I have no idea who did, but I'm grateful they did.
00:21:36
Somebody must have told them at some point that they didn't
00:21:40
have a dedicated line for people who use assistive technology,
00:21:44
like if you have issues logging into their website.
00:21:47
So now they have one.
00:21:49
I've never had to use it, but I'm so grateful for whoever told
00:21:52
them.
00:21:52
Kudos to you, because if I had ever needed help, that would be
00:21:58
the line I would be calling.
00:21:59
But I've never had an issue with logging in.
00:22:02
They're very responsive and everything.
00:22:05
But yeah, a lot of companies, a lot of businesses, they, you
00:22:10
know it's like you say, it's like they think accessibility,
00:22:16
but they think of it as an act of thought.
00:22:17
So they think of it when you come to them and say okay, I'm
00:22:20
going to sue your company because you are not accessible,
00:22:22
then all of a sudden they want to make the website accessible
00:22:26
when it needs to become accessible right out the box.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's funny and we've talked
00:22:32
about this before, and this is not a political podcast by any
00:22:35
means, but there is this diversity, equity and inclusion
00:22:38
initiative agenda that many corporations have included in
00:22:41
their marketing, including even an influencer marketing.
00:22:43
It's something we talk about, yet it is always about gender
00:22:46
and ethnicity.
00:22:46
It's never about disabilities, right?
00:22:48
Which is the other issue here of why isn't that part of the
00:22:52
story or the dialogue?
00:22:54
Speaker 3: Right, and you know, and yes, I am part of that
00:22:57
community, in the DEI community, because I am a person of color,
00:23:01
so I fit.
00:23:02
I definitely, and I'm a female too, so I fit into that category
00:23:07
too.
00:23:07
But it's like you know, it's like you were saying inclusion
00:23:11
when they think of inclusion, they think of including people
00:23:14
of color or Latinas, or they don't think of including those
00:23:17
of us who maybe use a wheelchair , or, you know, those of us who
00:23:22
have low vision, or those of us, like me, who only have light
00:23:25
perception.
00:23:26
That's all I have.
00:23:27
So, you know, I am working.
00:23:30
I did create a manifesto and I, at some point I'm going to
00:23:34
create a business book based on the manifesto, because I have
00:23:39
books that deal with diversity, equity and inclusion that I want
00:23:43
to review on my own podcast.
00:23:45
But you know, of course, I would be reviewing it from a
00:23:49
person with a disability profession, which I know will
00:23:52
not be mentioned, but I'm sure that I'm talking about people of
00:23:56
color, and so I want to hear what they got to say.
00:23:59
Speaker 1: You know on that note , melissa, I think it would be
00:24:01
interesting.
00:24:01
I know we didn't prepare this in advance, but I talk about AI
00:24:07
that it makes a lot of things accessible right.
00:24:10
It allows people, for instance, overseas that do not speak
00:24:14
fluent English, to be able to create content that is fluent
00:24:17
English, that has perfect grammar.
00:24:19
How has AI helped you?
00:24:23
Because I know that you use it a lot and you found a lot of
00:24:26
benefit from it.
00:24:27
Speaker 3: So, interestingly enough, I was literally just
00:24:31
asked to speak on a panel about this very same topic in a few
00:24:35
weeks.
00:24:36
Speaker 1: Nice.
00:24:39
Speaker 3: This lady in Open Voice Network.
00:24:40
She contacted me and she wants to do she's doing an inclusivity
00:24:45
panel, so she asked me to speak Now.
00:24:47
We'll be doing ours on StreamYard, so that will be
00:24:50
interesting.
00:24:50
But I mean, you know, but depending on the ai platform,
00:24:55
I've been able to use it for the most part, like chat, gpt.
00:24:58
There are some unlabeled buttons on there, but for the
00:25:03
most part it is, for the most part, accessible and as far as
00:25:08
unlabeled buttons, I can't do anything about that because I'm
00:25:12
not a developer of that platform .
00:25:14
Speaker 1: In other words, if a web designer or web developer is
00:25:17
too lazy not to label a button, it means that nobody with a
00:25:23
disability or many people it depends on the disability
00:25:25
obviously just can't use it, which defeats the whole purpose
00:25:28
of creating such buttons.
00:25:29
Right, that should be a hint to people.
00:25:32
So I think we've already hinted at it.
00:25:34
But, melissa, from your perspective and I know you're
00:25:36
undergoing the training as well why is and this may not be a
00:25:41
short answer, but why is digital accessibility then important
00:25:45
for businesses in terms of market reach, in terms of brand
00:25:50
perception?
00:25:51
I mean, if you were to summarize the work you're doing
00:25:54
now, how would you summarize that to someone, to a business?
00:25:58
You're talking to a CEO and he has no idea of why they need to
00:26:00
invest in accessibility.
00:26:01
What would you tell them?
00:26:04
Speaker 3: Well, one thing accessibility is not just for
00:26:08
those of us with disabilities, it needs to be for everybody.
00:26:09
So, like you were mentioning about one thing accessibility is
00:26:10
not just for those of us with disabilities, it needs to be for
00:26:11
everybody.
00:26:11
So, like you were mentioning about, you know, people from
00:26:15
overseas who can't speak English .
00:26:16
Well, they need a website that's accessible too.
00:26:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:26:21
Speaker 3: You know.
00:26:21
So it's not just us, but it's important because there are
00:26:26
certain things that we would like to be able to do, certain
00:26:31
platforms that we would like to be able to do, certain platforms
00:26:33
that we would like to be able to access, because it seems like
00:26:34
everybody else is on them, but if we can't access them, there's
00:26:37
no, you know, we can't access them.
00:26:40
So it's like with TikTok.
00:26:42
Speaker 1: That's right, not accessible right.
00:26:44
Speaker 3: No, which is why I still have an account on there
00:26:47
and I have yet to figure out how to delete it, because it's not
00:26:51
accessible, oh man.
00:26:51
So Facebook, you know.
00:26:55
Same thing with Facebook.
00:26:56
Now, interestingly enough, instagram, for the most part, is
00:26:59
accessible.
00:27:00
The only part that's not accessible is the Instagram
00:27:03
stories, and I think that's because that's connected with
00:27:06
the app and the app is not accessible.
00:27:08
Gotcha because that's connected with the app and the app is not
00:27:12
accessible gotcha but the real the part about doing real is
00:27:14
accessible and I still need to do some more posting on that.
00:27:16
But, um, yeah, so I mean I know that since covid, you know the
00:27:23
one positive thing is that more people are being made aware, but
00:27:26
I feel like there's still some work to be done.
00:27:32
And you know, years ago, at Wayne County Community College,
00:27:36
when I was at Wayne County Community College, which is in
00:27:39
Detroit, michigan, I had a teacher and I know he was Black.
00:27:43
I don't know how I knew, I don't know if it was because of
00:27:48
what he said that made me know who was Black, or Anyway, his
00:27:55
name was Stephen Chenault and he taught creative writing and he
00:27:59
said and I know he was referring to Black people, but I take
00:28:02
this as saying for the uniquely able, as I term it I'm kind of
00:28:08
like some of the people who have disabilities, who do not like
00:28:11
the term disabled Sorry guys, we don't like it, so don't do this
00:28:15
but he said that we think that civil rights is over and it's
00:28:20
not, and I know he was referring to African Americans, but in my
00:28:25
view it's not over for those of us with disabilities, because
00:28:28
if it were over, everything would be accessible.
00:28:32
Speaker 1: Indeed.
00:28:34
Speaker 3: And you know, I mean, you know I was once mentioned
00:28:38
to.
00:28:38
I call her my cousin, but she's really like my mom's cousin,
00:28:41
but we still consider ourselves cousins.
00:28:43
You remember that song this World Was Made For you and Me.
00:28:47
Yep.
00:28:48
Well, I feel like the world was not made for me yeah, that's.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: I mean.
00:28:54
You know they have laws and we can go deep, like ada compliance
00:28:58
and there's all these things, but at the heart of it it just
00:29:01
requires a little bit of love and understanding, right?
00:29:03
yeah and while you were talking, I wanted to prepare the
00:29:06
statistic.
00:29:07
But from a business perspective , it is said that 8% of the
00:29:12
United States population, or nearly 20 million people, have
00:29:15
visual impairments, including 1 million who are blind.
00:29:18
Obviously, there are other impairments as well audio
00:29:20
impairments, et cetera, et cetera.
00:29:22
So it is a huge audience as well that is not being served,
00:29:26
although when there's a, when there's a burberry that comes in
00:29:28
and serves the audience, obviously they're.
00:29:30
They're going to get the business.
00:29:31
So there's also this, above and beyond, it's the right thing to
00:29:34
do.
00:29:34
There there are, you know, economic and financial, you know
00:29:38
reasons to do that.
00:29:39
Let me ask you a question.
00:29:40
So you talked.
00:29:41
I want to get a little bit more into the weeds.
00:29:43
You talked about, like, not labeling buttons.
00:29:45
So what are the biggest accessibility mistakes that you
00:29:49
see businesses make on their website, or what prevents their
00:29:52
website from being accepted?
00:29:54
What are, like, the core things that they're missing out on?
00:29:57
Speaker 3: So for one thing, like I said, unlabeled buttons.
00:29:59
So if you run across a, button with your experience and it says
00:30:02
and it just says it might say unlabeled button, then you don't
00:30:07
know what that button is.
00:30:08
So that's one issue.
00:30:10
Form fields have to be labeled correctly.
00:30:13
So I haven't run across this recently, but I know, like some
00:30:18
websites, they will have a form that you have to fill out to,
00:30:22
let's say, you want to subscribe to their newsletter.
00:30:24
Well, they might have the email field, where your name is
00:30:28
supposed to be, and it may say email, and you think that's
00:30:32
where your email is supposed to go and it's not.
00:30:35
Speaker 1: Oh, wow, okay.
00:30:36
Speaker 3: But they may have.
00:30:37
The submission button may not be labeled and it just may say
00:30:41
button or something.
00:30:44
Speaker 1: Got it, got it.
00:30:45
Speaker 3: And then there are all these websites and emails do
00:30:48
it too.
00:30:48
It'll say click here.
00:30:50
I use a keyboard.
00:30:53
I can't click.
00:30:53
I don't even know what that means and people have tried to
00:30:56
explain to me and I still don't know.
00:30:57
I don't have a clue what that means.
00:30:58
I don't know what it means to click anything.
00:31:01
I can't click.
00:31:03
Speaker 1: Right, and therefore, in order for you to navigate to
00:31:07
a website, then you need to know the URL and then you can
00:31:11
navigate.
00:31:12
And UCLA Extension, where I teach, they include
00:31:16
accessibility.
00:31:17
They made sure that all my course materials actually have
00:31:19
an accessibility check and that was one thing I was taught as
00:31:21
well.
00:31:22
To make sure that you include that URL so that people know,
00:31:26
before they click on something, where they're going, was also
00:31:29
part of what they were training.
00:31:30
So I guess for people with submit buttons, that's a really
00:31:34
hard one, because with newsletters the submit is like
00:31:37
this JavaScript code very, very long, special URL but there has
00:31:42
to be an accommodation made in essence in order to allow people
00:31:46
to click that.
00:31:48
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, so those are some issues that I run
00:31:51
across and you know I've started telling, and some newsletters
00:31:56
that I'm subscribed to will say it'll say click here, but it
00:32:01
will say click here to read more or something.
00:32:05
Speaker 1: Right.
00:32:05
Speaker 3: Which is better than just a click.
00:32:07
I don't know what click means.
00:32:09
I don't have a clue.
00:32:10
And then the other issue is a lot of websites have this their
00:32:16
images are not labeled, so they don't have alt text on their
00:32:19
images.
00:32:20
So they may have an image, but it may just say image, it may
00:32:24
just say graphic.
00:32:25
I don't know what that means.
00:32:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that too many of us digital
00:32:31
marketers just think of that alt image tag as SEO right Without
00:32:36
really giving context to what that is and the value it's
00:32:39
adding to the article.
00:32:40
Speaker 3: Right, and yesterday, going back to my training, so,
00:32:47
like I was saying, we've been learning about the disability
00:32:51
models and we just started learning about the laws that you
00:32:54
were just referring to, and so we have.
00:32:57
So we're literally getting into this information and it's
00:33:01
really interesting because I mean, yeah, we talk about the
00:33:04
ADA, but we don't talk about some of the other laws, like
00:33:08
there's laws in Europe and there's laws in Japan, all these
00:33:11
different laws in all these different countries that we
00:33:14
don't even talk about.
00:33:15
And they did say that ADA compliant is the correct word,
00:33:20
that is the correct terminology that you are supposed to use.
00:33:23
And they just showed us a video called who Wants to be an
00:33:29
Accessibility Champion and it was really interesting because
00:33:33
it was like a trivia thing where they had these panelists who
00:33:37
were actually in the field farther than I am and a lot of
00:33:42
information.
00:33:42
They were dealing with some of the stuff, about all text, and
00:33:45
some of them got a lot of the information wrong.
00:33:48
So it's like the alt text it needs to be there, but it also
00:33:52
needs to be descriptive.
00:33:53
So I can't say something like maybe, an image of one person.
00:33:57
It has to be descriptive, like it needs to say something like
00:34:00
uh neo shaper drinking coffee or I don't know.
00:34:04
I'm just making this up, but you know it needs to be more
00:34:06
descriptive, otherwise we don't have a clue what that means so,
00:34:10
for businesses that are just starting with accessibility,
00:34:14
where would you recommend they begin at the end of it?
00:34:17
Speaker 1: they've listened to this.
00:34:18
They realize that they've neglected it.
00:34:20
What would you recommend they do other than obviously hiring
00:34:25
you as a consultant to to go through their website, but
00:34:28
outside of that?
00:34:29
Speaker 3: right well, well, other that, because right now
00:34:32
I'm just I'm just learning how to do that, which which you know
00:34:36
we we'll be getting into that in a few weeks learning how to
00:34:40
literally go in and audit websites and that whole thing.
00:34:43
So, other than that, there are different companies out there
00:34:48
that that's all they do is they?
00:34:50
They literally consult companies that want to make
00:34:55
their website and different digital content more accessible.
00:34:58
There's a website that we just looked at as part of this
00:35:02
training.
00:35:03
Well, I looked at it because I wanted to see what they offered.
00:35:06
It's's called PerkinsAccessorg.
00:35:10
It's connected to Perkins School for the Blind.
00:35:13
I didn't even know this site existed until we saw this video
00:35:16
about who wants to be in a accessibility campaign, and I'll
00:35:19
have to send it to you, neil, I'll have to find it on YouTube
00:35:21
and send it to you.
00:35:22
It's good information.
00:35:23
So their one site I guess I'd recommend because that's all
00:35:27
they do all day is digital accessibility consulting, and so
00:35:32
I guess I'd recommend that the business look into finding
00:35:36
somebody who is more than just me, who right now I just have
00:35:40
the user experience.
00:35:41
They need to find somebody who is an actual digital
00:35:46
accessibility consultant.
00:35:48
Speaker 2: I mean I can claim.
00:35:49
Speaker 3: I am all day but I can't really construct anyone
00:35:52
because I don't have a clue what I'm doing.
00:35:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, from the user experience definitely, but from
00:35:59
the business side, you know, you're still in training, so you
00:36:02
know.
00:36:02
One platform that I've heard of , I think we talked about before
00:36:05
, is a platform called AccessiBe .
00:36:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: And that supposedly it's one of these technologies
00:36:11
where just by embedding it in your website it'll make it
00:36:14
accessible.
00:36:15
But I'm curious have you ever used it or have you heard of
00:36:18
other companies like it?
00:36:19
Speaker 3: I've been in contact with the people who actually run
00:36:22
the site.
00:36:23
So the thing about accessibility checkers because
00:36:27
my website does have an accessibility checker on there
00:36:30
that I got from a company called Equalize Digital and they do
00:36:36
accessibility all day.
00:36:37
In fact, I have an interview with the lady who founded it on
00:36:41
my podcast.
00:36:42
Speaker 1: There, you go.
00:36:44
Speaker 3: The thing about accessibility checkers is that I
00:36:47
have discovered, because a lot of webinars dealing with
00:36:51
accessibility have come out of, you know, covid and everything,
00:36:55
which is good for me because I feel like I just have the user
00:36:59
experience.
00:36:59
I need to be in the know of what's going on in the world of
00:37:07
accessibility, you know.
00:37:08
But a lot of webinars have said they said that you can use an
00:37:10
accessibility checker, but you still need to have the user.
00:37:15
You still need to like, consult people with disabilities and
00:37:18
make sure it really is accessible, because an
00:37:20
accessibility checker it only checks for certain things and
00:37:24
it's just a piece of software.
00:37:26
So it can't check for everything which you know.
00:37:29
I heard that enough.
00:37:30
Like, well, that makes sense, duh, I mean right.
00:37:34
Speaker 1: So unless you really have someone on staff that is
00:37:37
that has that disability right, that is checking it, you'll
00:37:41
never know.
00:37:42
It's almost like creating and one reason why I haven't done
00:37:44
about creating like a foreign language translation of a book
00:37:47
but you don't read the language.
00:37:48
And if you don't have someone who reads the language read it?
00:37:50
Speaker 3: you'll never know yeah, and that's a good.
00:37:53
That's a good analogy, because that's exactly what it's like,
00:37:56
you know it's.
00:37:56
It's.
00:37:56
It's like creating a form, a book, only in print and you
00:38:02
don't offer audio, audio and you don't offer braille.
00:38:05
And then somebody like me comes wrong and they want the book
00:38:08
but they can't, you know, access it because you know the, the
00:38:12
kindle, the publishing platform, is accessible, but the actual
00:38:16
kindle software, where you can read the books, is not
00:38:19
accessible really that's.
00:38:21
That's actually surprising yeah, I haven't checked recently, but
00:38:25
last I checked it wasn't accessible.
00:38:27
So whereas I can publish my my work on kindle, I just can't get
00:38:31
any kindle books I wish.
00:38:33
I mean, you know audible is accessible, so that's you know,
00:38:37
that's fine with me.
00:38:38
And then of course, I have the library for the blind, and now
00:38:42
they're calling themselves plant handicapped or plant disabled.
00:38:46
I think they used to call libraries for the blind and
00:38:48
physically handicapped.
00:38:50
But you know, I get books from them too which I get for free.
00:38:53
But it's hard to know which books they will have and which
00:38:57
books Audible has.
00:38:58
So some books that Audible has, they don't get in.
00:39:02
And then some books that Audible gets in, they may get in
00:39:07
like soon after it's posted on Audible and it's like on Audible
00:39:10
and it's like, okay, I don't need to buy that one, I can just
00:39:12
get it from them.
00:39:12
So sometimes I have to buy Audible books because well, for
00:39:16
one thing I love reading and for another thing I can't tell
00:39:21
which library is going to get in and when they're going to get
00:39:26
in.
00:39:26
Speaker 1: And I think this leads to a greater discussion.
00:39:28
I was talking actually with a cousin of mine.
00:39:30
She is a I guess it's a fiction but there's nonfiction behind
00:39:34
it Sort of a young adult, and she doesn't have an audio book,
00:39:38
and you know.
00:39:39
That's obviously how we connected, but it's also in
00:39:42
marketing.
00:39:42
We talk about having your content and products available
00:39:46
in different formats based on people's preferences Right, but
00:39:49
in your case obviously it's not a preference, it's a must have.
00:39:52
It's not in that format, you can't consume it.
00:39:55
So it's just another great reminder of that.
00:39:58
I know I have not done this, but I have seen websites Maybe
00:40:02
I've experienced this, melissa where this little button like
00:40:04
click here to hear the blog post .
00:40:06
Have you ever run a blog post like that?
00:40:11
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I I think so, but I I usually yeah
00:40:13
but the screen reader reads it right yeah, from what I remember
00:40:16
, I think it'll say something like listen to this blog post,
00:40:20
or something like that.
00:40:21
But I'm busy reading it because it'll read it also you know,
00:40:27
read it.
00:40:28
But the reason, you know, like I was telling you at some point
00:40:32
when we were talking, the reason I don't use the computer for
00:40:36
like our main dual calls is because my screen reader reads
00:40:41
everything.
00:40:41
So if people they start chatting, it'll read that.
00:40:45
And if leo is trying to teach I have to stop my screen reader
00:40:49
because I can't hear both.
00:40:51
So gotcha I call in on the phone .
00:40:54
Now you know something like this.
00:40:56
You know this is different because the only things on my
00:41:00
screen we read was when it was recording and that was kind of
00:41:03
it.
00:41:03
But you know, if we had a whole bunch of people, like we do, on
00:41:08
our group calls, I would have had to call in.
00:41:10
And maybe it's just me, but I don't feel comfortable having a
00:41:15
bunch of people listen to my screen reader yammer on.
00:41:19
And it could be just me, I don't know.
00:41:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, in our weekly calls Melissa does
00:41:27
actually dial in.
00:41:28
So when I see the phone number pop in, I know it's her and at
00:41:31
first it's like you know, zoom offers you the ability to allow
00:41:34
people to access the call via phone.
00:41:37
It's like who would use that right.
00:41:38
But once again, if I didn't do that, melissa couldn't access
00:41:41
the call.
00:41:42
So it's all about accessibility accommodation.
00:41:44
I want to end Melissa, as we're getting near the end here with
00:41:47
and I want to end Melissa, as we're getting near the end here,
00:41:49
with two questions.
00:41:49
So I guess number one, you know , are there any exciting
00:41:52
advancements do you see in the future of digital accessibility?
00:41:55
I'm assuming that we have AI and with AI I'm hoping that
00:42:06
robotic voice, that the screen reader has is going to become
00:42:09
more human and soft.
00:42:09
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe you'll be able to choose your own
00:42:10
accent.
00:42:11
You know your own gender voice as well.
00:42:12
You know your own gender voice as well.
00:42:13
Yeah, with the screen reader and I was just talking to my dad
00:42:15
about this a while ago, because that's the one thing that they
00:42:17
don't have with freedom scientific, they don't have it
00:42:20
where they do have different languages and they do have
00:42:22
different genders.
00:42:23
But what they don't have is they don't have different
00:42:26
dialects.
00:42:27
So I can't choose an African-American dialect.
00:42:32
That's not an option.
00:42:39
And you know, actually what really brought that to my
00:42:40
attention was there's another member, there are a few members
00:42:42
in my Open Voice Network group.
00:42:42
I think one of them is blind.
00:42:45
I'm not sure of his visual impairment, but I know he's
00:42:49
blind.
00:42:49
And then there's another member named Lee Clark and he's from
00:42:53
the UK and he did a presentation a few like last year sometime,
00:42:59
and he was talking about how, in the voice space which is now,
00:43:04
it is something I do want to get into, because one thing he was
00:43:07
saying is people are not all represented, so it's like not
00:43:12
just people with disabilities but people who are people of
00:43:15
color were not represented.
00:43:17
So it's like they only take white people, which you know.
00:43:21
It made me think I'm like I didn't think of that and I guess
00:43:25
I wouldn't, because I just use the screen reader.
00:43:27
I don't know, I couldn't tell anyone how it works, but I just
00:43:32
use it.
00:43:32
I don't know, like I don't know the mechanics of how it works
00:43:36
and there's no way for me to actually find out.
00:43:39
I actually called a company and they say we don't have, we just
00:43:42
have a warehouse.
00:43:43
We don't have a place where you can tour.
00:43:47
Speaker 1: And I was like oh darn.
00:43:50
Well, on that note, melissa, what message would you like to
00:43:55
leave our audience of marketers and entrepreneurs and small
00:43:57
business owners?
00:43:57
I think we covered a lot, but I want to make sure that your
00:44:01
message is heard.
00:44:01
Is there anything that we missed or any sort of final
00:44:04
words you'd like to give our audience?
00:44:07
Speaker 3: So I just want to say , other than hooking up with
00:44:11
Neil, who is really awesome, Appreciate that.
00:44:14
Speaker 1: Thank you.
00:44:16
Speaker 3: I just want to say you know you all need to look at
00:44:20
the disability market and start looking at people who are
00:44:26
digital accessibility consultants.
00:44:28
Again, that's not me because I don't have the training yet, but
00:44:32
that's that's that'll be coming that's coming yeah, that's
00:44:35
definitely coming.
00:44:37
But you know, look at some actual digital accessibility
00:44:41
consultants and tell them, hey, I heard about this person with
00:44:45
disability and I need to make my site more accessible, and
00:44:49
they'll more than likely get you guys going because my site more
00:44:53
accessible and they'll more than likely get you guys going
00:44:54
because you know.
00:44:55
And then they'll more than likely get you guys going
00:44:56
because that is definitely something that we we need more
00:44:59
people who are willing to make their content accessible.
00:45:02
And then the other thing is when you want to change things,
00:45:06
like, let's say, the site used to be accessible and then a year
00:45:09
later, let's say I get on and all of a sudden it's not
00:45:12
accessible, which has happened a lot yeah, make sure it's part
00:45:17
of your checklist to make sure you maintain accessibility.
00:45:20
That's a no-brainer yeah, that's not only that.
00:45:23
Make sure it's accessible, but try to find some people who
00:45:27
actually have disabilities and consult them and say, hey, I
00:45:31
just made some changes to my website.
00:45:33
In fact, my writing coach just did this.
00:45:35
She had updated her website and went to a whole new platform
00:45:39
and she actually sent me the link and said I need you to
00:45:42
check this out because I just made some changes.
00:45:45
I want you to see if it's successful.
00:45:47
Now I was able to do that because I do have the screen
00:45:51
reader.
00:45:51
But had she wanted me to audit it, I couldn't have done that,
00:45:55
but I could have recommended someone for her to.
00:45:57
You know, talk to to audit.
00:45:58
So that's my thing is I can't audit a person's digital content
00:46:03
, but I can tell you from my experience it was successful.
00:46:06
But the other thing is you can't just consult.
00:46:10
You have to consult other people with other disabilities,
00:46:13
yep, yep.
00:46:13
Other.
00:46:14
You know cognitive impairments, or maybe someone who's deaf, or
00:46:18
you know someone who has seizure disorder.
00:46:22
You know somebody like that, somebody with another disability
00:46:25
other than just visual impairment.
00:46:27
Because one thing that I you know in taking this training
00:46:31
course, like I said, we just learned about different models
00:46:35
of disability, and I was talking to my mom and one of the models
00:46:39
is a cultural identity affiliation model and she was
00:46:44
telling me which I would never have thought this.
00:46:46
But when I started taking this training course, they asked me
00:46:50
okay, so what do you want to do with this material?
00:46:53
My response was something to the effect of well, I want to
00:46:57
use it for the blind people.
00:46:59
And they were like you can't just use it for the blind people
00:47:03
, you have to use it for other people with other disabilities.
00:47:05
So that's what my mom meant.
00:47:07
I was trying to associate accessibility with only my
00:47:13
disability and not realizing wait a minute, what about the
00:47:16
other thousands of people who you know have this disability or
00:47:19
that disability?
00:47:20
Or you know what about the mentally challenged?
00:47:25
You know, I wasn't thinking of that because I don't experience
00:47:29
that.
00:47:29
You know, I know someone who has a cognitive impairment, but
00:47:35
we don't talk about our disabilities.
00:47:37
Speaker 1: And I think it's natural.
00:47:38
If you haven't experienced something, you don't know about
00:47:40
it.
00:47:40
You need to make the effort.
00:47:41
And I think, melissa, I mean to sort of sum up, I mean it's not
00:47:45
just good business, it's the right thing to do, and those
00:47:49
companies that are doing good, that are making emotional
00:47:51
attachments with their community , those are the companies that
00:47:53
will be successful.
00:47:54
And I also want to remind people you know, a decade ago,
00:47:57
if I was doing a video, I did not have reading glasses on.
00:48:00
I have reading glasses on now, right?
00:48:01
So at a certain age we all become visually impaired to
00:48:06
different degrees.
00:48:06
We all become audio impaired to different degrees.
00:48:09
So it is more of a general like is your font?
00:48:12
That's why I go out of my way to make sure I have large font
00:48:17
size on my website and it drives me crazy when I see tiny you
00:48:19
know font size or when it's not in black color, it's in like a
00:48:21
light gray font.
00:48:22
So it really is a universal thing to you know impairment at
00:48:26
different degrees, but it's a mindset that I think companies
00:48:30
really need to put into practice .
00:48:32
And obviously it starts with understanding and hopefully this
00:48:35
interview with Melissa gave everyone a great understanding.
00:48:38
Melissa, where can people go if they want to?
00:48:41
Obviously, you're uniquely abled on Twitter, linkedin.
00:48:44
Obviously, melissa Green, any other place we can send people.
00:48:49
Speaker 3: Well, so my LinkedIn is Melissa Green and, by the way
00:48:53
, for those of you who don't know, Melissa Green is actually
00:48:55
a pen name.
00:48:56
It's not my actual name, but it's a pen name.
00:49:00
But anyway, because I write also, so you all can go to my
00:49:03
LinkedIn profile.
00:49:04
It'll say there's apparently a bunch of people with the name
00:49:07
Melissa Green but mine.
00:49:08
It will say Greensboro, North Carolina.
00:49:10
Speaker 2: There we go.
00:49:12
Speaker 3: And then there's Instagram is A Blue Green Galaxy
00:49:16
and my Twitter handle is A Blue Green Cabotel GXY, because it
00:49:24
said I didn't have enough spaces to put galaxy.
00:49:27
Speaker 1: It happens.
00:49:28
And then, what about your podcast?
00:49:30
Speaker 3: My podcast is called Uniquely Able.
00:49:32
Now here's what I have discovered.
00:49:35
There are a lot of companies called Uniquely Able, so you all
00:49:40
have to actually put in Uniquely Able on Apple Podcast
00:49:45
or Spotify.
00:49:46
Spotify is accessible too, but you all have to put it in
00:49:51
because otherwise you're going to come across a bunch of.
00:49:53
There's a company called Uniquely Abled Academy.
00:49:57
There's a project.
00:49:58
I had no clue that, that even I didn't even, which is a good
00:50:04
thing.
00:50:05
But you know, I didn't know that when I named my podcast
00:50:09
Uniquely Abled.
00:50:10
I didn't realize that well, there's a lot of other Uniquely
00:50:13
Abled.
00:50:13
I didn't realize that, whether it's a mother, whether you're
00:50:13
uniquely, abled before on here.
00:50:14
you aren't the only one.
00:50:15
So you know, like I said, that's a good thing, but I think
00:50:20
the terms need to be changed.
00:50:22
I mean, you know, calling someone disabled is, I want to
00:50:28
say, outdated, but it's when I think of the term disabled as
00:50:34
I'm sure many people with disabilities do, and I know some
00:50:36
people in my training course, do you know, it makes us think
00:50:40
of people who can't do anything to say.
00:50:53
One thing that my aunt and I were talking about was, you know
00:50:55
, if the company does not know someone with a disability, if
00:50:56
they are not connected with someone with a disability, they
00:50:58
are not going to want to work with us.
00:51:00
They'll feel like we need too many things, we need too many
00:51:04
accommodations, we need, you know, too many things that they
00:51:07
don't want to pay.
00:51:08
They don't want to invest their money to spend on, say, jaws,
00:51:14
or let's say, the person needs a wheelchair, or you know, or
00:51:19
even a wheelchair ramp, or you know.
00:51:21
They'll feel like we need too much stuff and so they don't
00:51:24
want it, they don't want to deal with it, so that's.
00:51:26
the other thing is I was just on a webinar yesterday and it was
00:51:31
dealing with speaking and, yes, it was on Zoom, but one of the
00:51:35
circle communities that I'm in, and the lady was saying, you
00:51:39
know, she was saying, basically, we need to those of us with
00:51:43
disabilities, we kind of need to build, we need to build our own
00:51:47
speaking opportunities, because it was dealing with speaking.
00:51:50
It was dealing with like launching your speaking business
00:51:54
.
00:51:54
But my thing is, you know, I was mentioning to her that you
00:52:00
know, I'm in Toastmasters for one thing, but a lot of
00:52:03
companies, you know, for one thing, they use Facebook and
00:52:07
since I can't use Facebook, I don't know what.
00:52:10
You know, there are all these speaking gigs, but for one thing
00:52:14
, I don't know what's out there.
00:52:15
And for another thing, I feel like my topic is not being
00:52:17
represented enough.
00:52:18
It's kind of like, you know, it's like they have all these
00:52:23
different conferences, you know all these different topics, but
00:52:27
they only deal with, like, the people of color and the latinos
00:52:32
and you know, which is fine, but we're, we're in world two yeah,
00:52:37
and I think that's loud and clear, and I hope that those
00:52:40
that are listening will take action.
00:52:42
Speaker 1: Obviously, if you want to take action, melissa is
00:52:44
going to be on your side and a great ally, so make sure you
00:52:47
reach out, melissa.
00:52:48
Thank you so much for sharing your story and, uh, you know,
00:52:52
inspiring on the one hand, but on the other hand, there's still
00:52:54
a lot of work to do and hopefully this interview will
00:52:57
help those efforts, even if it's just a little bit, to
00:53:00
contribute.
00:53:01
Speaker 3: Yep, and so my website is ablugreengalaxycom.
00:53:05
Speaker 1: Thank you, I'm gonna make sure that all those links
00:53:07
are in the show notes and obviously at any time.
00:53:11
Speaker 3: If anyone can't get hold of Melissa, let me know and
00:53:17
I'll make sure you two connect, but, melissa, thank you so much
00:53:18
for being on the show today.
00:53:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem.
00:53:19
All right, I hope you were inspired by the interview.
00:53:21
Melissa is actually on my digital first mastermind calls.
00:53:25
We have calls four times a month.
00:53:27
She by far is the one that is most bought in.
00:53:30
She is always showing up, always reporting back, telling
00:53:33
me about her plans, having the group hold her accountable and,
00:53:36
like I said, it's amazing to see what she has already
00:53:38
accomplished and I'm really looking forward to seeing what
00:53:40
she will accomplish in the future.
00:53:43
If that is a group that sounds interesting to you to be able to
00:53:46
learn to network with other small business owners,
00:53:50
entrepreneurs, content creators and get some accountability and
00:53:53
get my help as well, I would love to have you in my Digital
00:53:56
First Mastermind community.
00:53:57
All you need to do is go to neilschafercom slash membership.
00:54:00
You can sign up there.
00:54:01
If you wait a little bit, there is going to be a perk in my
00:54:06
Kickstarter to join at a discount.
00:54:08
There's also going to be a new community that I'm going to be
00:54:11
starting, the Digital Threads community, where you will have a
00:54:13
chance to become a founding member of as well, exclusively
00:54:16
through that Kickstarter.
00:54:17
So make sure and I hate repeating a link over and over,
00:54:20
I feel a little slimy, but I want to serve you, and that's
00:54:23
the best way to do so.
00:54:24
So neilschafercom slash Kickstarter.
00:54:33
Speaker 2: And that's it for another episode.
00:54:33
This is your digital marketing coach, neal Schaefer, signing
00:54:34
off.
00:54:34
You've been listening to your digital marketing coach.
00:54:36
Questions, comments, requests, links.
00:54:39
Go to podcastnealschafercom.
00:54:42
Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes at
00:54:47
nealschafercom to tap into the 400 plus blog posts that Ne Neil
00:54:52
has published to support your business.
00:54:54
While you're there, check out Neil's digital first group
00:54:58
coaching membership community if you or your business needs a
00:55:01
little helping hand.
00:55:02
See you next time on your digital marketing coach.
Related Episodes
The New Rules of (TikTok) Influencer Marketing with Kumospace's Drew Moffitt
Unlock the secrets to mastering influencer marketing on TikTok with insights from Drew Moffitt, head of marketing at Kumospace. Discover how performance-based compensation and cutting-edge AI tools are transforming influencer campaigns, making them more effective and measurable. We explore how TikTo...
Digital Marketing Blueprint for Online Entrepreneurs
Today's episode dives deep into the realm of digital entrepreneurship and offers invaluable digital marketing advice for all digital entrepreneurs out there. I share insights from a conversation with a friend and consultant who published a book on entrepreneurship in Japan and is now looking to roll...
Leveraging Digital Marketing for Nonprofits: Insights from Nicholas Bruneau
In today's episode I sit down with Nicholas Bruneau, a seasoned communications consultant and author of Engage with Impact, to discuss the transformative power of digital advocacy. Nicholas shares his vast experience working with organizations like the United Nations and the World Bank, offering pra...