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March 10, 2022

TikTok vs Instagram: What the Best Platform for Influencer Marketing is in 2022 [Justin Kline Interview]

TikTok vs Instagram: What the Best Platform for Influencer Marketing is in 2022 [Justin Kline Interview]

Instagram has always been the King of influencer marketing, i.e. where a majority of influencer marketing budgets have been going, but with the emergence of TikTok, which is the best place to engage with and activate influencers?

Joining me today is influencer marketing expert, and Founder and CEO of one of the leading companies in the influencer marketing space, Markerly. We go deep into what makes TikTok such an appealing venue for influencer marketing, including:

  • Why TikTok is the place to be for young people.
  • Why it's more engaging than any of the incumbents.
  • The amazing value you can get working with TikTokers and how competitive their ad platform is for brands.

Key Highlights

[02:07] Introduction of Podcast Guest, Justin Kline

[05:03] How Justin Get Into Influencer Marketing

[07:26] Transitioning From Social Network to Influencer Marketing

[10:26] The Growth of Tiktok Over The Last Years

[13:10] Changes in Tiktok Demographics

[14:53] The Rise of Tiktok During Pandemic

[18:00] What Makes Tiktok Special?

[20:03] The Role of Influencers

[22:00] The Differences of Going Into Influencer Marketplace

[25:16] Tiktok Ads

[27:07] Tapping Into Creative Force of Influencers

[28:40] Branded Partnership in Tiktok

[29:57] Knowing the Demographics to Invest Into

[33:46] Connect with Justin

Notable Quotes

  • It's just crazy how, how much the pandemic has changed things. It's really fascinating. And yeah, and I look at Tiktok is very much an entertainment platform. 
  • I think it's just this never ending stream of stuff that they're predicting, you're going to like, and the more you, you know, the more you use the app, the better it gets at, at suggesting content to you. 
  • Influencers are keeping people interested in making content that, you know, is going to capture people's attention. And, you know, that's a hard job.
  • Tapping into this creative force, that enables you to think of ideas and to come up with content that you wouldn't have been able to come up with on your own. That is more likely to engage people because they on a daily basis, they're putting out content, and they're getting instant feedback as to how effective that content is, and how much that content resonates with their followers. 
  • That's sort of a unique type of entertainment that just didn't exist in social media until Tik Tok. Right. So an example of raising the bar now other people are probably trying to do the same thing. And now we're going to see new things. So it just continues to evolve at a very, very quick pace. So I think that's one of the reasons why, you know, working with influences become so critical. 

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Transcript

Joe Pulizzi:

Hi, my name is Joe Pulizzi, founder of Creator Academy Expo, I want to see you in Phoenix, Arizona may 2 through fourth where we are going to talk about how you can become a content entrepreneur, if you are into content creation or whatever platform that is, we're going to bring together some of the greatest experts, Roberto Blake on YouTube, and handily on writing Jordan Harbinger on podcasting. myself. I'll be talking about exit strategies, anything you want to learn about audience building, revenue generation content operations or into web three, we're going to talk about it at Creator Academy Expo may 2 through fourth in Phoenix, Arizona Grande and because you love Neal Schaffer, go to Neal Schaffer comm slash CX and you're going to get $150 off of attending CX I want to see you there may 2 through fourth crater Academy Expo. Thanks.

Neal Schaffer:

What is the best platform for influencer marketing in 2022? Is it the reigning champion Instagram? Or will it be the new kid on the block tic tock? Let's find out in this next episode of The your digital marketing coach podcast digital social media content influencer marketing blogging, podcasting, blogging, tick tocking, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, SEO, SEM, PPC, email marketing, who there's a lot to cover, whether you're a marketing professional entrepreneur, or business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert advice. Good thing you've got Neil on your side, because Neal Schaffer is your digital digital marketing marketing coach, helping you grow your business with digital first marketing one episode at a time. This is your digital marketing coach, and this is Neal Schaffer. Hey friends, this is Neal Schaffer, your digital marketing coach and welcome to my podcast, influencer marketing topic that we cover infrequently here. And today I have a very special guest, Justin Klein. Justin is the founder and president of marker Lee, which is one of the leading influencer marketing companies around it's always a treasure to be able to speak with someone that has just been doing influencer marketing for the last nine years. They obviously understand the trends where we've been where we're going. And I think we need that sort of perspective. When looking at Tik Tok. The emergence of TiC tock is really unlike anything we've seen, we've seen similar things emerge in social media marketing over the last decade, but nothing that has come out of nowhere and just seems to get stronger and stronger by the day. And it's also a platform that brands really really struggle with to be able to create that authentic content that Tik Tok users crave. And as you know, for meeting the age of influence, this is one of the benefits that influencer marketing has of being able to really access communities of influencers leveraging the content that they use to engage with their community. And that is only one of the reasons why we're going to be talking a lot about tick tock some of the things that we talk about. Why tick tock is the place to be for young people, why it's more engaging than any of the other platforms that are out there. And the amazing value you can get working with tick talkers, and how competitive their ad platform can be for brands. As you can imagine, the winner for 2022 Although Instagram is still queen, Tik Tok just might become King based on the trends that we're seeing in the market. So whether you want to learn a little bit more about influencer marketing, or about tick tock or both, this episode is for you. I hope you'll stay to the end. Without further ado, here is my interview with Justin Klein. You're listening to your digital marketing coach. This is Neal Schaffer. All right, just inclined Welcome to the your digital marketing coach podcast.

Justine Kline:

Hey, Neil. Thanks for having me.

Neal Schaffer:

So Justin, you follow a line. It's interesting this podcast has we've been honored to have founders and CEOs of influencer marketing companies. We've had Eric de Han, CEO and founder of open influence. We've had PJ lime goober one of the co founders and Neil reach and now we have yourself who is well I'll let you talk about it but one of the most famous brands really in the influencer marketing industry Mark really so it's really an honor to have you today I'm really really happy you know excited to jump into the topic but before we do that, obviously you know when we were born influencer marketing I mean, we had celebrity endorsements, but none of this stuff existed. So how did you get into, you know, what you're doing today with influencer marketing? Let's start there.

Justine Kline:

Yeah, you know, as cliche as it sounds, I kind of fell into it. Because, well, originally back in 2012, when we started Mark early, hence the name, it was a very different product that we were building, you know, now we're very much an influencer agency and technology part, you know, partner with, you know, all of our various clients. But back then it was a, it was a sharing tool. And the, the original vision was that all the most important stuff on the web would be easy to share. You know, the quotes we dubbed is like the Pinterest for texts, okay, essentially. So like, just like, you can pin images on Pinterest, like, we really like the textual version of that you could select text, and then share that to like, your own, like kind of scrapbook of quotes, like within your account. And there was also like this highlighting layer. So like, you could see other people's saves, essentially, like, if you wanted to make that public,

Neal Schaffer:

it was a social network then of its own.

Justine Kline:

Yeah. And that my vision was, like, all the most important stuff on the web would be highlighted. And you'd be able to see like, commentary on like, you know, all these different, you know, editorial pieces, essentially. Right. And, you know, we got on a ton of blogs, several 1000 blogs, like we had lots of people install our plugin. And we were on some pretty big sites to like, like run like Pando daily, and I think like, like TechCrunch, might have played around with us for a little while. And like, we got some, like, some, some really big sites to install it. And this was like before, like, medium added, like, the ability to like highlight stuff and add, you know, like your own, you know, like, annotations to the text. So, yeah, that was like, that was the original vision. And after we got into 500, startups, like a tech accelerator program, like we were all pretty young, like, early 20s, when we started this, and then we got into fiber into startups. We decided, like, alright, we need to, like, monetize this more quickly. Like, we're going out to raise money. And we just decided like influencer, marketing was a bandwagon, we should probably hop on. Because, you know, back then it was mostly bloggers. So it was a natural transition. For the company. It just made sense. It fit, like, you know, the whole story really well. Okay, we have all this code on blog sites. So we know how people are interacting with the blog posts. We know, you know, how far they're scrolling. We know what they're copying and pasting. We have all this rich data as to like, you know, how engaged readers are of these posts. And influencer marketing was very much blogger centric back in 2012. Indeed, was very Mom Blog centric, actually, like they were all the rage back then. And yeah, so it was like a natural transition, we got into influencer marketing started to build technology around that. And as like these other platforms started to gain in popularity, like Instagram and Tiktok. Now, we've been integrating all of those into campaigns accordingly.

Neal Schaffer:

So yeah, and I always tell people that that is sort of the the history of influencer marketing really does start with the mommy bloggers, right. But you're a unique company that you, obviously in some companies that never pivoted outside of the mommy bloggers sphere, and they missed out on the huge growth that we started Instagram. And I'm sure your history since then has been very Instagram centric. Is that a correct assumption? Oh, yeah.

Justine Kline:

Instagram, and now Yeah, tick tock is like really big. And we've been doing a lot on tick tock. And I agree. Like, there are a lot of companies that yeah, they never really branched out from the blog stuff. Whereas we kind of embraced, you know, all of this growth. And there's, there's so much opportunity, right, like, I mean, even now, like beyond like, I'm starting to think like beyond tick tock, right? Like, we're getting into like Metaverse stuff and like NF T's and web three. And I mean, it's just crazy, like to influencers and yeah, like, yeah, like synthetic influencers. Right. Totally. It's, it's crazy. It's a crazy spin.

Neal Schaffer:

So on that note, yeah, I mean, the other unique thing is that you you have both experience that the web based or blog and in the social network, because you have other platforms that just started with Instagram, but they don't have that web technology. And therefore, you can see things in a much broader perspective based on that experience, which is pretty cool. And I think that's really good for today's topic. And, you know, we're recording this a little bit earlier than when it's going to be published. We're near the end of the year. And, you know, I think if there's any year to sort of blow up your your digital and social life 2022 Is the year because I think that tic TOCs growth and influence and I'm sure you'd agree it's just Got a lot of people by surprise and it's just become so big that it's time to make a significant shift in your marketing so I really want to focus in you know, Instagram for influencer marketing you look at any stat it's had like the biggest influence market economy, but obviously some of that is starting to shift to Tik Tok. So let's let's look at and you know, a lot of people listening might already be invested in Instagram influencer marketing, we have to start with tick tock, they may have no idea about tick tock. So why don't we start with just you know, how you've seen the growth of tick tock over the last two years, specifically with, you know, some of the campaigns you've done, or just client demand? What have you seen as sort of the trend?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, I mean, I think two years ago, is when we really started to work with tick tock influencers for various clients. Like we did a pretty big, like anti vaping campaign, and because they wanted to reach younger demographics, right, because there was a big, and there still is, like, a huge problem as far as like teen vaping. And yeah, I mean, it's terrible for your lungs, and it causes popcorn lungs. It's terrible. So that was like a really fun campaign. Because, you know, I love the stuff where we can, like, make the world better, right, like, cool. I feel like I'm like your quintessential millennial that wants to, like make the world better. But But anyways, like, yeah, that was like, all tick tock, pretty much. And it was because tick tock, you know, is known for the fact that it has that younger demographic that we wanted to reach, right? You know, like, all these young tick talkers are getting famous because of, you know, their dance moves. I love like, tick tock, because dancers, right, they were always like, kind of like, in the backgrounds and like, the singers were always up front, you know, like Britney Spears would be up front singing and she was a great dancer, too. But like, then all the dancers are in the background. Well, tick tock was really cool in that it allowed for amazing dancers to become famous, right, just because they're fantastic dancers, and that like, was never a thing. So tick tock has enabled people that wouldn't have been able to get famous otherwise, to become famous. It's really an amazing like, it's a phenomenon in a way. And what where was I going with this?

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, let me try to reframe it. So and I guess you could say the same about some photographers on Instagram, right, allow them to shine and build influence? Absolutely. But I think that over the last two years, you know, I my daughter right now is 16 years old. She's part of the TIC tock generation and charted Amalia and all that. But I've seen a shift where two years ago was all about she'd always be doing some you know, dance and whatever. But now she's like checking out recipes on tick tock. She's learning like fitness moves. There are like lawyers that are giving advice on tick tock. I saw a presentation by Rachel Peterson at Traffic and Conversion summit about how she uses that one tick tock link to generate seven figures for for her coaching and her her like programs, you know, social media marketing. So I think that, you know, a lot of people still think tick tock is only about dancing. And while that is how it started, can we started where it is today. Is it still younger demographic? Or? And is it still just dancing? I mean, where do you see it now? Like with the campaigns you're on?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, I mean, obviously, the demo, like more people are getting on it, and the demographic is changing, right, like the topography of the demographic is changing a bit. And I think it is starting to encompass, you know, older generations as well. I think it is still, like more on that younger side overall, like, it's still like a younger platform. I haven't looked at like the recent stats for the last six months or anything like today. But I mean, I think that it does still skew younger, it certainly presents itself that way when buying ads, right. Like there's way more ad inventory for younger demographics, which, you know, leads me to believe that it's still skews younger. But yeah, like, older people are getting on it. They're, they're doing recipes. They're doing comedy. They're doing music, you know, like there's a lot of musicians that are now on Tik Tok, and then, you know, on the piano and on the guitar, you know, they're people that are giving advice to people, right, like, a lot of self help stuff now is on tick tock. Yeah, I mean, because the categories are kind of endless. There's endless as like, you know, humanity,

Neal Schaffer:

if you will, I guess for those that are listening. You know, we talked about Instagram being primarily b2c, although b2b brands have started emerging on Instagram and probably Tik Tok for b2b a little bit early. But for b2c, it really is a pretty broad landscape that pretty much any consumer facing brand that has a demographic under 30 years old, as part of the demographic should be looking at tick tock as a major force right now. Would you agree with that statement? Yeah, I

Justine Kline:

mean, I think you know, tick tock is interesting in that it, it really came to fame during the pandemic. Right, yeah. And in a way, and I've said this before, do you remember Kwibi? Remember when that came out that app? I don't there have been so many other apps have come. But yeah, there was an app that was started by a very famous Hollywood producer. Okay. And I think they raised like, hundreds of millions of dollars for this app, right? Was the such a big deal. And it was supposed to be basically like a portrait style, high quality TV shows and movies that you could watch on your phone on the go. And the idea was that it would be for people would use this on their commutes going into like the cities, like on trains. And like, it would be it like this was supposed to be like, the next big thing. Oh, my God, Kwibi. And they were trying to make it like, like a verb, like, I need to Kwibi this or that, you know, like, like, and it was supposed to be this huge thing. Well, I think tick tock ate cookies, lunch, essentially, over the pandemic, because like, no one was traveling. Right? So like, Kwibi wasn't really that important. But like, I feel like if the pandemic hadn't happened, I feel like tick tock wouldn't have been as popular. And people would have been using like this quibi app instead. It's just crazy how, how much the pandemic has changed things. It's really fascinating. And yeah, and I look at tick tock is very much an entertainment platform. That's why I kind of mentioned the whole Kwibi thing, because instead of watching Netflix, right, I feel like people are, especially young people are using tick tock, as you know, they're a form of entertainment. Totally. And I think even more so than like Instagram and Facebook, right? Like Instagram and Facebook, that's more of like, Hey, here's a pretty picture of me, as I'm meeting with friends. We're like communicating with friends on Facebook, right? Very different kind of dynamic. When you compare that with tick tock, which is like, I'm going to dance for you, I'm going to sing for you. And yes, I think now, like, there are recipes, and there's more like, utilitarian kind of like types of content. If you know, I guess that's how I phrase it, like, you know, these are pieces of content that are going to help your life in some way, you know, kind of like a Pinterest would for like, I'm going to make a board of like, interior design. Like I think tick tock can be used for that. I don't know if that's the sweet spot. I think the sweet spot is entertainment. That's my long winded answer. You know, my ramble on, on Yeah, on all that,

Neal Schaffer:

which makes a lot of sense, because that's how it clicked. That's how it got its claim to fame. But even within entertainment, I'm sure you'd agree there's a lot of creative ways to do that. For those businesses that are listening that they don't they don't know, you know, they don't know how to dance or they have no idea. I mean, I think of all the networks, you know, tick tock has this really unique culture. And, you know, when we were preparing for this interview, you were saying, you know, tick tock is is the place to be for young people. And it's more engaging than any of its incumbents. So let's let's sort of unpack more about that. What what is so special about tick tock, what makes it attractive? And I think, as you talk about that, we'll see that entertainment aspect, and how that's important to engage on tick tock.

Justine Kline:

Yeah. So I think it's just this never ending stream of stuff that they're predicting, you're going to like, and the more you, you know, the more you use the app, the better it gets at, at suggesting content to you. Right? And yeah, and businesses, right, like, you don't need I mean, you don't need to not a dance, per se. But like, if you're going to be on Tik Tok, and you want to stand out, it is important to think about like, Okay, what's going to be like, entertaining? Like, how can I entertain people? And you have to think like, if it's b2b, right, like, business people are on tick tock, right. So depending on the type of business, right, like, if you're selling, I don't know, like web services of some sort, right, like, candidly, like, tick tock might not be the best place for you to reach your ideal customer. That's okay. And that's okay. There are ways though, to use like tick tock ads, and like targeting, you can target like device IDs. And that's a whole other thing. And what you can do is you can get influencers that that are in your space, that might have a tick tock, you can actually have them create content, and then target device IDs to serve that content directly to who you want to reach. Right. So there are little hacks around it so that you can make tic tock work for you in that way. But yeah, I mean, I think tic TOCs just special, you know, because of its ability to keep you engaged, really, it's pretty simple. They've just like, kind of unlocked secrets of the universe and how to keep people, you know, really engrossed in the content.

Neal Schaffer:

But that's where for businesses that don't, that are just not familiar enough with tick tock. You really have to be able to create content on purpose. car with that level of entertainment value. And that's where the role of influencers comes in. Right? Right. Because

Justine Kline:

they're pros, they're pros that, you know, keeping people interested in making content that, you know, is going to capture people's attention. And, you know, that's a hard job. That's stressful, right? Like influencers take on a lot of responsibility, right? Like, they have a lot to live up to. And they always have to raise the bar, and everyone's raising the bar, the rate, the bar gets raised every single frickin day, every minute, a new video comes out, and it goes viral. The bar has been raised. And it's this constant like competition. Right. So that's incorrect, like and influencers, certain influencers, the ones that are authentic, they thrive in that, and they love it. And they're creating content every day for their followers, and they're trying to always better themselves, I'm better than them make better content every single day. And then there are others that kind of burn out, they might make great content, but they can't handle like that whole, like the stress that that that's involved with that. So like, it's it's there really is like this double edged sword in a way, you know, when it comes to creating content, I think. But yeah, some people are great warriors, if you will.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, I just so I, one of my guilty sins is playing this iPhone app, because a game because my son plays it. And I get fed tick tock ads and the ads for tick tock, I forgot her name, like sexy Hot Mama. But it's like a mother of like, you know, two kids maybe like a 12 year old, a 10 year old, and she's mimicking their conversations in the back of the car, while she's driving. It's all her you know, using some some weird filter. It's quite funny. And it actually if you are a young mother or a young parent, that you know that content totally hits you. And that's sort of a unique type of of entertainment that just didn't exist in social media until Tik Tok. Right. So an example of raising the bar now other people are probably trying to do the same thing. And now we're going to see new things. So it just continues to evolve at a very, very quick pace. So I think that's one of the reasons why, you know, working with influences become so critical. But I want to further ask you, obviously, you're an influencer marketing agency. And you know, you you're also a technology partner, tick tock is, I believe the first social network that actually has their own influencer marketplace. Now I have a client that's actually trying to work directly on that marketplace, they've run into a lot of issues, the quality actually hasn't really been up to par from what they would expect from a Tiktok influence, or maybe their budgets set too low. So you know, can you talk about the difference between you yourself going into that marketplace? versus working with a company like yourself, just to compare, you know, apples and apples?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, totally. So not every influencer, you know, joins the marketplace. First of all, right? So there, you are a bit limited. And, you know, there are some theories that are going around, like, you know, some influencers are like, wow, I joined the marketplace. And then like, all my engagement, like went down and like, people don't follow me anymore, like the algorithm has changed. And, you know, like, if I don't do enough brand partnerships or something through the marketplace, then I get kind of screwed. So I don't know what they're doing. They're like, if there's like, some weirdness going on to try to, like, incentivize people in some weird way to do more brand partnerships through the marketplace, but there's, it seems like there are forces, you know, underneath, you know, behind the curtain, that are kind of odd. But, yeah, I mean, we're, we're very much agnostic to, like, tools that we use to build out our programs, right, like, we build our own internal tools, obviously. So we're maybe a little, you know, biased there. But, you know, I think, if someone's on tick tock marketplace, and they're a perfect fit, and the price is right, like, why not, right, like use the TIC tock marketplace, if you're brand new, you just want to spend like a couple 1000 bucks, you don't want to build like a big ass program, or and have, like, you know, a team of people develop a strategy for you, and help you come up with materials to give it to the influencers. And if you don't want to, you know, a whole team to make sure that everyone is like posting on time and that the quality is a certain level. And that the ads if we're going to be boosting content, that there's a strategy around that, like, there's a lot that we offer that the marketplace doesn't really cover, but it's great for like companies like if you want to spend like a couple 100 bucks, you'll find like a micro influencer or whatever, like and you can find someone on there to sell your shoes or whatever. And want to try it out. Like I by all means, like I think that you know, there's there are now options for everyone, which is cool.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, and it's a unique feature that you know, like I said, I think they were the first to have and I think for for the small businesses that just want to you know, tap their foot in the water it's a or tap their toe in the water I guess would be a great place to start. I also want to ask you because you had mentioned tick tock ads and device ID So tick tock For those not familiar does also have a ad platform, similar to like a Facebook ad manager, although it's obviously a lot more simpler, I think, talk about the device ad. So is this sort of like retargeting mobile users? Is that sort of the idea here? Or?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, pretty much I mean, so now that we are moving to a cookieless world, right? The way to target people will be via device IDs, right. And every device has a unique identifier. And there are different data companies that buy data and collect data, and kind of organize all the data based on different categories or demographics, you know, location, there are basically data companies for every possible way you can slice, you know, an audience, and you can buy that data. Or you can build your own.

Neal Schaffer:

You can upload, you can upload a list of device ID similar to how you can upload an email database, pretty much. Audience pretty much. Okay. And then if I add an email address, there are services that would provide me that a potential device ID for that email address or for social

Justine Kline:

leave, there are yes, there are services that can try to link email addresses to device IDs, that is a little more difficult. And I would be a little skeptical as to how accurate that is. Right. Right.

Neal Schaffer:

Very cool. Well, hopefully, this conversation has opened up a lot of people's eyes to the potential tick tock, compared to other platforms. Before we began, you were saying this this amazing value that brands can get by working with tech talkers, as well as how competitive their app platform can be for brands. So maybe it's just to sort of summarize everything, you know, looking at the value of working with tick tock was in the value of the platform, like just talk with those one at a time before we sort of, you know, conclude what is I mean, is it the the ability to tap into this this creative genius of Tiktok influencers? What can they also teach you how to do better creative? I'm sure there's a lot of different benefits. But how would you sort of summarize that to, to those listening that I've yet to engage with tick tock influencers?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's, this can be applicable to all influencers, in that, you know, you're kind of tapping into this creative force, that enables you to think of ideas and to come up with content that you wouldn't have been able to come up with on your own. That is more likely to engage people because they on a daily basis, they're putting out content, and they're getting instant feedback as to how effective that content is, and how much that content resonates with their followers. So they are essentially experts at creating engaging content for their followers. And if the people that you want to reach are their followers, well, then it makes perfect sense that those are the people that you should be working with. And then the ad portion of this right is essentially just allowing for the ability to get that content that you will have had the influencer create to more eyeballs, right to boost it, ideally, the native content, but you could of course, like take that same video and re upload it and, you know, run an ad as the actual company, you know, as your brand, right? Or you can boost the content that is already live. You know, basically like the content that the influencer puts out you can put spin behind it. And that way the content is or the ad is coming directly from the influencer as opposed to the brand's if that makes sense.

Neal Schaffer:

So tick tock, similar to Facebook and Instagram, they have that branded partnership where you can boost. Gotcha, okay. Well, tick tock has developed everything very intelligently, haven't they?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, tick tock, great. I was a little worried. Like, you know, when our previous president was thinking about banning tick tock, I was like, oh, no, don't do that. Because like, we have, like, lots of tick tock stuff going on. Like the Tick Tock stuff is great. The clients love it. Why are you getting rid of it? But yeah, luckily, you know, that's all been figured out and tick tock will continue. And it's funny, cuz they were like, in talks like, Microsoft's gonna buy him or something. I don't know. It was it was bizarre. They were like, it was yeah, I need to sell this now. So we can stay in America. It was weird. But yeah, yeah, I

Neal Schaffer:

think for those in the sidelines, it's just become a mainstream part of American culture. So, yeah, you know, going forward for those, you know, companies that are listening, if I have a teenage audience, if you if you if you're like, Okay, here's like $100 million budget, right, we're going to give Mark really, we want to engage with teenagers. And you were going to say, you know, 100% Tick Tock 80% Tick Tock 20% Instagram, what would sort of like as you go through the demographics, what would sort of the age groups be and in terms of like where you would recommend we we invest money in tick tock?

Justine Kline:

Well, I'd need to better understand You know, like, the specific type of person, right? What is like the ideal customer profile? You know, where do they live? What do they like? What are their interests? Because then that'll give us a better idea as to like, what the breakdown is for that specific audience on tick tock versus Instagram, right? Because they're in multiple places. Yeah. Right. And you don't want to over saturate them in one place. Right? So you need to be careful. You need to know like, how, how many times are you hitting them every day? How many of these people are there? Right? 100 million dollars, it's a lot of money. But it's not a lot of money. If it's like, you know, a billion people around the world. Right? Right. Right, like, but if it's like only a population of a million people, and we're spending 100 million, so that's $100 per person, that we're, you know, so like, this

Neal Schaffer:

was a bad example, let's let's lower that budget. Let's just say,

Justine Kline:

it's fine. If it's a car, and you think that you've been spending $100 per person might make sense if you're selling a car, or something high price, right, like, but are there 100 million people in the in the country that could afford it? Like Yeah, so like, there's like, all this crap. But um, that's how that's that would be my starting point. It's just like trying to unpack, you know, where these people spend their time, what their interests are, and then finding like the crossings, right, like, I when I was doing like, really large scale ad buying, before we started Mark early, like, I was managing like millions of dollars a month in ad spend, for different companies. We were buying ads like and you know, like hitting different audiences across the web. Like we basically like sliced up like the entire we cook it the whole web, basically, like a billion people. It was like a billion people that were on the internet at the time, we had like a cookie on everyone, and knew what they like knew what they were browsing. It was kind of scary. And yeah, and like, I noticed that like, the best ways to optimize would be to find like the crossings. So like, someone who likes llamas, who also likes Honda's tend to buy this product more than other people. And like, I was really good at like finding that like those. That was a weird example. But like, it's true, like, people that searched for llamas, that also like Honda's like, I would find weird stuff like that. And then I would just like, Okay, wow, like, Let's spend as much money on this population of people as possible, because that's the cream of the crop. And then I would find like other kind of like, weird, like, correlations or like crossings of like, types of people and interests. And yeah, I mean, I would also look there, you know, in the marketing data, to try to find that kind of stuff.

Neal Schaffer:

So I assume outside of Tik Tok and Instagram, depending on the influencer, you might also depending on the audience and the product, you might also include a YouTube or a Facebook as part yeah,

Justine Kline:

maybe have that data Drive content development, you know, like, ideas, right? Like, I'll go with this silly example. Again, llamas and Honda's? Well, maybe the content should have a llama and Honda, you know, if you take that, you know, silly example, into consideration for content, right? Like, maybe all the content should have that. And we should be, you know, like, getting this content to those specific people who like these things, because they have the highest, you know, probability to purchase the product.

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. Well, Justin, you've given us a lot of food for thought, obviously, you know, people think about influencer marketing, oh, I'll just engage an influencer. And there's obvious, it's obviously a lot deeper than that, especially with a platform like Tic tock that I sent your general excitement, I think every marketer is really excited about the potential for it. So Justin, if people want to, you know, find out more about Mark earlier and all the great stuff you guys are doing, how can they best contact you?

Justine Kline:

Yeah, so I would go and email me Justin at marker Lee calm, and that is spelled marker, l y.com. So it's like a marker and then just loi.com Pretty easy, but some people are confused with it. And that's why I have to kind of spell it out.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome, which also makes sense the the notation that original, you know, web app that you created, why you have that name, so yes, exactly. Very cool. Well, hey, everybody don't spam Justin. Okay, you have permission to email them but make sure it's a it's a series email. But hey, anyway, thank you so much for your time today and just being very candid about the opportunities that are out there. I hope that people take advantage of what Tik Tok has to offer not just for influencer marketing but as a marketing platform. And obviously if they want to really scale up their their influencer marketing operations, definitely reach out to you. So thank you again, and best luck with everything.

Justine Kline:

Thank you, Neil. Take care.

Neal Schaffer:

Alright, I hope you enjoyed that interview. If you're a brand that is looking to leverage influencer marketing, definitely check out Mark early. They are one of the leaders in the space Mar Hey erly.com Hey, you can also reach out to Justin directly, we'll put his LinkedIn in the show notes and tell him that you heard him on the your digital marketing coach podcast, I think he'd appreciate that. But hey, if you are a regular subscriber, I'd really appreciate if you could take a minute of your time to go over to Apple or wherever you listen to this podcast just to leave a really quick review recommended to others. It really is what fuels this podcast appearing in more searches on any given podcast playing platform. And if you're new here, I hope that you hit the subscribe button so that you can hear all of the content that is coming up in the near future. And if you are looking for a group, if you want to engage with me, get my help. And you're looking for a group, a community where you can learn, feel accountable and network, I run a very, very unique mastermind community called Digital first. And I'd love to have you as a member. It is a very, very low cost to be able to engage with me in the group on a four times a month basis, over zoom calls as well as a private slack group. So I know it's not for everybody. But if it is something you're interested in, definitely go to Neal Schaffer comm slash membership to check it out. Alright, that is it for another episode of the digital marketing coach podcast. This is your digital marketing coach Neal Schaffer signing out. You've been listening to your digital marketing coach, questions, comments, requests, links, go to podcast dot Neal schaffer.com. Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes, and Neal schaffer.com to tap into the 400 Plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your business. While you're there, check out Neil's Digital First group coaching membership community if you or your business needs a little helping hand. See you next time on your digital marketing coach.