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Nov. 15, 2021

What Does a Successful B2B Digital Marketing Program Look Like? [Andrew Smith Interview]

What Does a Successful B2B Digital Marketing Program Look Like?  [Andrew Smith Interview]

Leapfrogging (pun intended as you will see shortly) off of my previous episode #234 speaking about the virtues of being a marketing generalist, here is a case in point: If you want to become a marketing leader, you need to have all of your digital marketing bases covered.

What bases need to be covered? And what does a comprehensive digital marketing program look like?

I am honored to have my friend and Digital First Mastermind Community Andrew Smith on as my guest today offering us an x-ray view of the digital marketing program that he is running as the Senior Marketing Manager for Leap, the leading all-in-one home improvement contractor sales software.

Leap sells to other businesses so the program being described is a B2B digital marketing program, a treat for you B2B marketers. But even if you are a B2C or nonprofit marketer, the lessons learned from Andrew's experience are 100% applicable to your situation.

Key Highlights

[00:57] Introduction of Podcast Guest, Andrew Smith

[03:55] Andrew's B2B Digital Marketing Background

[04:44] What is Leap And What Does It Do?

[07:27] Where To Begin Digital Marketing Strategy?

[10:14] Deciding on How Much to Invest In Each AR Activities

[13:32] Criteria To Look At When Deciding About Changes In Budget

[15:18]  Targets Set For Marketing By The Management

[17:31] Verticals Based On Data

[24:44] Andrew's Advice For Marketers In Marketing Technology

[29:22] Upcoming Leap Features

[32:44] Connect with Andrew

Notable Quotes

  • It's being at least in front of those people and keeping them at least engaged to the degree that they don't tell you to go away that then when they're ready to pull that trigger, you're still front of mind enough that they are aware of you to do that.
  • Being able, to know that what you do is going to produce a certain amount is a good place to be rather than sort of doing something and not knowing what's going to happen.
  • It's more about the quality of that content, rather, the budget to reach those people since we have that covered. So there's really no category that we're not in, but it's creating the content for the vertical that's more important, I think.
  • Start out small, prove a little prove a proof of concept, right? If you're doing you know, advertising or content marketing, or email or any of the channels that you're not currently in that you need some budget for that and try something you know, small or free.
  • The other flip side of being in a company where the culture is very collaborative and productive, so that you know, what you need in marketing, from the product or from sales or from customer success, you have those people in those relationships that are willing to help you achieve what you want to do, as well as for the benefit of the company.

Connect with Andrew Smith

More Info on Neal Schaffer and This Podcast:

Transcript

Neal Schaffer:

What does an ideal b2b digital marketing program look like? Today we have a very special interview and a unique opportunity to have an x ray look into the b2b digital marketing of a successful company. On the next episode of The your digital marketing coach podcast. Digital social media content influencer marketing, blogging, podcasting, blogging, tick tocking, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, SEO, SEM, PPC, email marketing. Whew. There's a lot to cover. Whether you're a marketing professional entrepreneur, or business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert advice. Good thing you've got Neil, on your side, because Neal Schaffer is your digital marketing marketing coach, helping you grow your business with digital first marketing one episode at a time. This is your digital marketing coach, and this is Neal Schaffer. Hey, everybody. Neal Schaffer, here I am at your digital marketing coach. Welcome to my podcast of the same name. Well, there are nonprofits that are b2c brands, and there are b2b companies. And I want to make sure that I have enough content to satisfy all of your needs. My background is b2b, and that's where I'm really happy to have a true b2b, b2b Marketing Pro, a friend and also a member of my digital first mastermind community. Andrew Smith. Joining me for this interview, the timing for this podcast episode is almost in sync with my previous episode number 234. On the value of being a generalist, I think you'll get a sense when talking with Andrew, that any modern digital marketing program needs to cover a lot of basis. And if he was only a specialist, in one niche, he would be one of the six people on his team instead of the leader of his team. So it was after I recorded that interview that I recorded my previous podcast episode, very, very fresh in my mind. With that in mind, I want you to really think about all the different basis you need to cover and all the different things that you need to do to have a successful b2b Digital Marketing programming. I would argue that the same concepts and tools and channels that Andrew talks about for b2c, they might be different, but the idea and the way they're managed, the process should be the exact same. So regardless of your b2b or not listening, there's going to be a lot of great takeaways. So without further ado, here's my interview with Andrew Smith of leap. You're listening to your digital marketing coach, this is Neal Schaffer. Andrew, welcome to the your digital marketing coach podcast.

Andrew Smith:

Thank you very much, Neal. It's a pleasure to be here.

Neal Schaffer:

It's an honor to have you, my friend, we have known each other for I want to say almost a decade, met through social media.

Andrew Smith:

Yes. What's it 20? Yes, it's got to be very close to that you are about as long as relationship in social media as I as I have with my wife now. So yes, that's how I gauge it.

Neal Schaffer:

That's sort of scary. And we've ran into each other. I know, it's Social Media Marketing World. And you haven't obviously, we're live on zoom right now, but haven't seen in a while. But been from afar, watching your career, you are one of my friends who's always been very, very heavily invested in b2b, digital marketing for your career. And I thought it would just be a great opportunity to sort of share, I'm really impressed with what you're doing. And I think that everybody listening can can learn a lot and really compare notes as to what they're doing at their organization, and find opportunities for growth. So thank you for taking the time. My pleasure, Daniel, first of all, tell us about sort of like your background, and obviously leading up to where you are now.

Andrew Smith:

Yes, so I had my own retail store, which unfortunately, did not survive the downturn in 2008. I've been sort of responsible for the marketing side of that. And digital was just coming, sort of alive. We did, we did a little bit of email, and we sort of got on Facebook, but nothing was really happening there for quite for a little while, but one of my customers took me on board to run digital marketing for his lawn care franchise. And so I did that for three years and had some some great success with that went to work for a b2b agency, then went sort of client side for a little while, then went back to b2b then went client side. And now I'm back to a now back to b2b. So it's been 1313 year journey up to this point,

Neal Schaffer:

and where do you currently work? And what is your role there?

Andrew Smith:

So I work for leap. Leap is a subscription cloud based model for contractors. We have a iOS app that essentially digitizes all of the processes that contractors use, and I I'm the Senior Marketing Manager here we have a team of along with my with my boss, the VP of marketing.

Neal Schaffer:

So you're and we've discussed this previously on a phone call, but your target market then are contractors who can leverage your app to simplify their business.

Andrew Smith:

Yes, at Target my kid is home remodeling contractors. So within that you have a lot of specific verticals. So you have roofers, ciders home remodelers, concrete, basement, Paveway people, painters, so all of those people have an individual process. So for example, you know, a roofer will come to your property, and you know, we'd get on his ladder and climb up the roof and try and measure around, get down, get in his truck, pull up his Excel spreadsheet and try and figure all that out, get into your house, pull out a bunch of books, and then sort of take a check and off. Whereas with Leap A, you can access the app with a bunch of third party integrations. So we have a bunch, for example of satellite photo companies that will take a satellite image of the roof. So it's pre measured, you can preload all of your price books and guides into the app, you can offer financing, sign it digitally. And so you can essentially digitize this entire process in front of a customer and it a it speeds up the process quite considerably. So instead of spending three to four hours on a sales call, you can spend 45 minutes, you can make sure that your prices are accurate that your products in stock that you're not selling under margin, that you've got the correct measurements that you've signed the deal that you've got the money and it all ties back into whatever CRM or technology you're using in the in the back office. So it's a real, it's a digitization of an existing process that you can customize it to your own to your own situation. So that's what league does.

Neal Schaffer:

Very cool. That sounds almost like a 23rd century solution. How much did you devise everything. But the funny thing, though, is that your target customer when we get into marketing, and who we're targeting, is, from my perspective, the most and digital person. I don't see roofers making. Well, there might be some roofers making tic TOCs. I know there's a famous plumber on YouTube as well. But in general, this demographic seems like a very, very hard demographic to target. So with your b2b digital marketing, obviously, starting with the target market, how do you begin to sort of okay, we know this is our market, we know this is how we can help our customer, where do you begin with that strategy?

Andrew Smith:

So the strategy starts with breaking those individual verticals down to priorities for us. So primarily, roofing, siding, windows, are the are our main target market, simply because they are much easier to measure? If you're doing for example, a full kitchen remodel? There are so many elements within that, that it becomes slightly complicated, but for a roofer. Yes, you are correct. If they have a smartphone and do email, they think they're digital. From those they'll sit in their truck and you know, write on pen and paper with a cup of Dunkin and and that's that process, but we digital so it is it, it's trying to bridge that divide of what, which parts of their process are they annoyed with enough that they would like to change? It's it's a big change to go from pen and paper and excel, something you've done for 20 years, and build your business with to go do something which is entirely digital and dependent on an app? It's an emotional problem, essentially, am I going to miss out on this? Everything's working fine. Why do I need to change technology is tough. I've used you know, other pieces of technology that didn't deliver. So you know, how is yours gonna do that? So it's the challenge, the challenge is, is persuading the contractor that the other parts of his life which he uses digital technology, so you know, he's probably on his way to Dunkin and ordered something on the Dunkin app, he'll stop by and get his lunch, and then he'll go home and Uber out, or, you know, he'll, he'll use he or she will use a large variety of those apps. But translating that into their business process is the challenge that we face.

Neal Schaffer:

So where do you begin then from a marketing I guess, channel specific, you know, your market, you've divided the verticals, you prioritize the Vertical Roofing, you know where to next? And then what would that messaging look like? Obviously.

Andrew Smith:

So where are these people? Where do these people hang out? Facebook obviously, is, is a big source. Facebook groups are a big source of communities that you can that you can access. So we have a lot for example, all of our employees will will be in those groups for under their own personal profile. So we get a lot of market information about what's happening down there. We go to a lot of now in person events we just got back from the top 500 remodelers conference down in in New Orleans. So we meet these people face to face and we do a lot of paid PPC we do a lot of email. We collect a lot of details for for retargeting for people on our website and so we We use the channels of email event paid as well as organic social to really to really find out market as well as content marketing in terms of webinars and, and thought leadership and educational pieces on on our site.

Neal Schaffer:

So you got a lot of things going on there a lot of moving pieces, how do you decide how much to invest in each one of those moving pieces,

Andrew Smith:

we're very data driven hit being sort of a tech company, we have a lot of data, we have a good tech stack, we have a bunch of developers that can develop things in house. So we have multiple dashboards that report multiple KPIs in terms of leads quality of leads, how sales have viewed those leads, how what their what sales reaction to those leads have been, so we track everything from from start to finish through the system. So we can see the journey, we can see the drop off points. And so we can we can see what's working, what's not working. And slowly, you know, with the bandwidth, we have fixed those individual things. So if a quality of lead comes a goes to sales, they their metric is they're able to get the customer on the phone. So it's a real live bleed, they're able to set a demonstration, did the lead that actually turn up? And did they did they close. So leads are coming from different channels close in different ways. So the leads that we focus on the close the best are obviously top of our mind in terms of how we deal with those people. So webinars, a form fills on the website, Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram leads, those that are sort of instantaneous, we we prioritize those. And then people attend webinars or conferences that we add to our email list will will put them in specific categories and sort of email drips and see how far they progress, we have a scoring method that we use in Pardot. So activity across everything is tracked, once you reach a certain point, then you you move on to the next bucket. And so yeah, that's that's how we prioritize AR activities, be our content and see the quality of the leads that we're generating.

Neal Schaffer:

And when you have multiple sources of attribution, I'm assuming that's calculated as well, so that even if they saw the Instagram ad came to your website, filled out a form ended up attending the webinar, that you know that every one of those channels had a touchpoint. In that lead.

Andrew Smith:

Yes, attribution across the entire journey is what using that particular pathway is yes, if you've, if you've gone to Instagram, Facebook, the website attended a webinar filled out then that's that's a long pathway of stuff. But it indicates that, you know, it's it, nothing is linear, it's it's left, right up down, we have people that will be on our email list that haven't responded to anything for like a year have never opened an email, but still there and then boom, they'll open something hop on a webinar. So it's it's being at least in front of those people and keeping them at least engaged to the degree that they don't tell you to go away that then when they're ready to pull that trigger, you're still front of mind enough that they are aware of you to do that.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, I mean, what I love about what you're doing is you you basically have all the bases, you're tracking reporting, I'm curious how often when thinking about changing budgets, for instance, how often are you looking at that tracking those reports? To make a decision as to we need to shift more here less there? Is it like weekly, monthly quarterly? I'm sure you're looking at the reports often but when you make a decision, what is sort of the criteria?

Andrew Smith:

Well, for example, we have let's take out PPC for example, on Facebook or on on Google. So we have a monthly budget based on our average our average cost of conversion for those. But we'll also try, you know, as sales targets are generally we're a startup growth company. So our targets are always going up. And it's not always a question of just doubling budget and throwing money at things, you've got to look at these things and see how you can scale the efficiently. So for example, I've just, I've just finished a redo on the on our Facebook advertising and you know, we increase that budget by 33% based on the fact that we can sustainably expect that that kind of ramp up to deliver a greater quantity of leads at a similar quality at roughly the same, the same as ROI so we look at those I look at everything weekly, we sit down and look at everything monthly in terms of what's what's applicable. And of course, things pop up that you know, your some event comes up or you you win an award, they want to buy your plant for that you're like, Okay, we'll put some money into that. So yeah, we focus and track things very, very directly. We're much more data driven than most organizations that I've worked for.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, and I think most successful b2b Well, most successful digital marketing is is data driven like that. I love the fact that when a channel performs well it gets rewarded, right with with additional investment and knowing that it's going to deliver you know, it's going to be a more effective channel. I'm curious. And we talked a little bit about this before we started recording, how does management look at all this? From their perspective? It's just one number and number of leads amount of sales? Or do they get involved with deciding what channels to invest how much money in or what is their, you know, what is their role and all this.

Andrew Smith:

So the the targets for marketing a set a set by the CEO, and you know, our VP is part of the executive suite. So he's fully involved in that. So our targets are set out for the year, decided by months, and also split by the internal KPIs. So we have like six different varieties of leads. And so we track those in a spreadsheet literally, every day that gets updated with sort of a pacing towards the target. So we can see where we are, literally minute by minute. So yeah, those those are set. So we know what our targets are, we also know that a certain amount of activity in each of these individual channels, produces activity that will generate leads. So for example, X amount of email or X amount of webinars on a particular topic, will produce x amount of registrations, which will produce x amount of this, we're always looking for new sort of creative ways to do that. But we we try and optimize that are already working for us. So in terms of email, testing that to different groups, subject lines, click through rates, images, all of those things, but within the stated goal of yet this has to produce. So you know, this is our baseline of sort of quality.

Neal Schaffer:

But you have that baseline because you've done it you've measured and now you're basically basing everything on top of that correct? At the beginning, a baseline, you got to start from somewhere,

Andrew Smith:

right? We can we can literally say if we if we decided to like, Okay, we're going to shut down webinars for two weeks, we can say, well, that's going to be like 25% last in this category, as an idea. So either we'd have to replace that, or we're not going to do that. So yes, being able to, to know that what you do is going to produce a certain amount of is a good place to be rather than sort of doing something and not knowing what's going to happen.

Neal Schaffer:

Right? What about the verticals? Is everything you do regardless of vertical? Do you reserve certain channels for certain verticals? Or is it just the choice of vertical is just gonna depend on the channel and how effective the past advertiser has been?

Andrew Smith:

Well, based on the data, then we've categorized all of our verticals down into sort of tier one through sort of tier four. So a lead that's in Tier one is going to be treated a little more differently than leads following down because the data says that these leads will close a lot better and move through the funnel a lot better. So so we prioritize those, probably the top three verticals are roofing, windows, siding, those are our sort of main bread and butter, because the you know, the app was designed by by a roofer who didn't want to be on roofs anymore. I was like, There's got to be a better way of doing this. So he literally sort of taught himself to code and built this app. And so yeah, that's, that's, that's really, we have a lot of history there. So we know that producing those leads will will resulting in greater revenue, then then something else. So we focus on those in terms of in terms of content, but we don't disregard everybody else. Because we know that even if they're a lower propensity, then X amount equals X amount of revenue. You know, if you've got leads there, then the sales team has something to work with. If you don't have any leads, then obviously, they've got nothing.

Neal Schaffer:

So do you sort of divide the budget up by those tiers to make sure that even that lower tier that's not responsible for a lot of sales, but yet it still markets still gets 5% of the budget, or 10% of the budget does that sorry,

Andrew Smith:

only not PPC. So I'll focus for example, on roofing contractors or general contractors on on Google looking for specific software related to their vertical. So yes, the the tier ones or those keywords will get a greater greater budget amount, then the lower the lower ones Facebook is, we divide that up by little bit by verticals to but those, you know, those, those audiences are a little or less, that have changed that much, because there's only so many of these people within that. So it's more about the quality of that content, rather, the budget to reach those people since we have that covered. So there's there's really no category that we're not in, but it's creating the content for the vertical that's more important, I think.

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. And then within the team of, you know, six that you manage, so, you know, optimizing Facebook ads, optimizing image and copy and you talked about the email subject, and that's a lot of the work they do is performing these experiments to try to you know, best optimize everything you do.

Andrew Smith:

Yes. So each Have these you know, every, every webinar has its own campaign, for example. So it's like, okay, who? Who's the speaker? What kind of audience we're trying to reach? What content are we doing here? Are we doing, you know, two emails? Maybe we're doing 3am emails as a cadence, what are we doing this? Have we looked at verticals, webinars in this vertical before what's worked, can we use that as a baseline and then test against something like that, we found that, you know, for example, that we used to create, you know, a graphic and put that in and put that in the email. But a lot of our a lot of our email subscribers prefer much more of a sort of text based email rather than the graphics. So we cut the graphic out on, you know, a second email for that. And that produced a 10% left in, in registrations on that, for example. So, yes, we test these things constantly, by by vertical, and by and by content to it, or content in the individual channels.

Neal Schaffer:

They're very cool. So, you know, for everyone listening, you know, when Andrew and I had this similar conversation a few weeks ago, when we were just getting back in touch with each other. You know, this, to me is like the ideal type of marketing operation. It's completely data driven. You're constantly experimenting, you have all of your channels covered. And that's where, you know, you know, my email marketing automation, check, pay per click check. You know, Facebook ads, I believe you're doing Instagram ads as well. I'm assuming that you're not doing LinkedIn ads, because that's really not where your demographic is hanging out? Or are you also have you experimented with like LinkedIn ads and Twitter ads?

Andrew Smith:

Yes, LinkedIn, we will do more of that in 2022, for specific, probably sort of more enterprise level clients where we can reach those those particular people, but sort of your average mom or pop contractor is not really on LinkedIn. They're not on Twitter, they're on Facebook and Instagram, they're on email. And they do a lot of searching and a lot of retargeting. So we do a lot of retargeting for those particular people. So yeah, it's, it's, I forgot the question. Where did you go with that?

Neal Schaffer:

No, no, no, that's no, that's, you know, in my mind, I have this checklist of all the potential channels. And, you know, my thinking, when we last talked that you basically had them all covered. There was one, though, that was missing, which was organic search.

Andrew Smith:

Yes, yeah. When when I sort of when I came here, and I was like, alright, what are we doing in you know, this, this and this, that was like, Alright, yes, we have this, this and this, and we're, you know, we're busy, we're busy working that. So it was more, you know, sometimes you're arriving, there's no strategy and a company, or there's bits and pieces, whereas this was, yes, there is a strategy, and we need you to manage and optimize it to scale it, rather than, and there are budget and people to do that. So that, you know, for a marketer, that's, you know, it's not like, Okay, well, I've got to go out and get this and redo, change all this. And it was, it's there, when we need you to make it go faster, make it better, and add improvements or things along the way that you that you want to do as well. So yes, LinkedIn, going back to the the organic, you know, the situation, then we'll be doing, we'll be looking at a full website redesign for 2022, which will, which will only enhance all of these individual platforms and the pathways that people use to find us that we don't fully have broken down to the degree that we should have. So that's, that's on deck for for 2022, we're also introducing a we've been playing with some artificial intelligence on the leads, when they come into into our tech stack and giving them a number based on the data points within that lead generation data, relative to leads that have come in and closed in the past that when we hand them off to sales, we can say, Okay, this is, you know, this is a point eight is likely to move forward, and this is only a point six. So, even within the vertical, even if the point six is, you know, top of the priority, if it's only a point six, then number two is a point eight, it's more likely to close, then this is what you should be focusing on. So, we will be doing some more refining on that for for next year. So that we can essentially hand over a lead to sales that is a qualified for them and B we can give them a target data point for this is this is much more likely to close them than all of these so focus your time on those

Neal Schaffer:

very cool I mean, part of you know what you're able to do is because you have that budget and you have the the management team that understands that you've worked in a variety of you know, agencies and you know, and and customers in the past, what would be your advice for the marketer that's listening to this that says I want to be like Andrew, I want to do what Andrew does. How should they go about trying to get that budget that investment in in marketing technology? What would be your advice?

Andrew Smith:

Like all of us I mean, I've sort of landed at the you know, I've landed in the Promised Land where everything is that you think you've wanted that you didn't have somewhere else or was your your bosses or your bosses bosses didn't understand it or were like, well, this isn't worth it. You know this this comes from and sort of the top down here of, yes, this is what we need to achieve, this is what we need to do, what do you need to do that, and putting the time investment of resources and people into doing that, which is kind of rare. So I'm sure there are some marketers listening out there going you lucky son of a gun. Because you have what you need. And you can actually perform your your job in the way that you really should, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing you know, for a market and more upsetting than not being able to do something that you're like, well, this would really work or we'd be really cool if we could do this. So yeah, start out small, prove a little prove a proof of concept, right? If you're doing you know, advertising or content marketing, or email or any of the channels that you're not currently in that you need some budget for that and try something you know, small or free. So you know, get a get a small CRM and do some some free email marketing and see what happens with that before you decide to go and get like, you know, pot or HubSpot or something like that. And and a lot of our smaller companies, then yes, they don't have the resources to you know, a lot of our contractors don't have the full marketing resources to do what we do. So I feel kind of fortunate. But I understand having having been in all those situations you've just described of, yes, I'd love to do this, I'd love to do that. But I can't fit, whether it's financial, whether it's people, creative, or other resources. So I think being in a, in a marketing organization that covers much as it needs to to deliver what they want you to do, then that, that that's a really good place to be. Yeah, execute.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah. And but I also think, you know, I agree 100% of what you said, I also think that having that data, though, that at the beginning, in order to get budget, it's not like, well, we need to be on tick tock, why? What's it gonna deliver from business perspective, it's the fact that you've done these experiments, you have this data that says, hey, if we invest this much, this is what we can get out of it. And I think that's really where everybody listening. If you want to get more budget for whatever you do, that's sort of what you need. That's the ammunition. That's how you convince people. And that's sort of the chicken and egg. Because in order to get that, yeah, you might need to do some 30 day free trials, you might need to spend some extra time. I'm also wondering your management team, do they attend like a marketing webinars and go to conferences, read marketing books? Or were they just like natural? I always wonder if there's like this education aspect that marketers can sort of help their management better understand the potential?

Andrew Smith:

Yeah, I mean, as CEO owns a Home Remodeling Company, which is how we this is a spin off company from that one of his employees, one of his top sales guys, was the guy that created this app. And he believed in him enough to set up this company and be like, yeah, we can use this. So being involved in marketing from from that perspective, from the b2c side, then yes, he's fully aware of and, you know, he just got back from a conference, he's always willing to jump on webinars, the founders always willing to jump on webinars, go on panels, go to partner meetings, so they fully understand and appreciate their both their investment of time and money into into marketing. So that, you know, it delivers the goals they're looking for. So having having a management that's not only sort of willing to invest, but also be part of it, when you're looking for content, you're looking for expertise for knowledge, then yes, they're, they're always willing to jump on and do things so that their side of the coin is, is having them invested, not just in marketing, but with the other, the other departments of the company to the other flip side of being in a company where the culture is very collaborative and productive, so that you know, what you need in marketing, from product or from sales or from customer success, you have those people in those relationships that are willing to help you achieve what you want to do, as well as for the benefit of the company. So

Neal Schaffer:

very cool. You're you're living the dream right now. Very cool. So, you know, based on everything that you've talked about, you know, everything is working great. You're making progress on all these different channels. You mentioned, you know, LinkedIn ads, redesign of the website, any other things that are coming in the future new experiments or new things that you're going to do that you haven't been doing before.

Andrew Smith:

I think next year, we will focus a lot more on video, I think, both for advertising, but also as content generation, we need to do it, you know, a much better job of telling our story, we need to do a much better job of having our customers tell their story. And so we'll be looking at and making much more specific content, user generated content that the focus is on the verticals that we're in and the success stories that the people have had with with we're always sort of very data driven to the degree that we don't have a lot of personality attached to the sort of the marketing side of people. And so I think you know, we We're going to be a little more invested in it not so much features and benefits for the contractor as much as the, the emotional side of why they should be doing the real reason why people do anything, right. It's not that, you know, you save three hours because you don't work in spreadsheet. It's because you can take those three hours and go home and coach a good softball team or do something like that, where we're giving you time, what do you you know that that's the great thing for you. So whatever you want to do with that time where we're helping you do that, and when we speak to people sort of one on one, then they, they appreciate that, but we need to do a better job from from the marketing perspective of putting that message out there to to other people so that they can see that.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, I mean, that's most b2b marketers have that issue that the, the marketing tends to not be so humanized. And it's sort of impossible to humanize it without including your customers. And I guess leap is very unique in that it's b2b. But your customers, in essence, are entrepreneurs, right? I'm sure each one of them have an emotional story to tell, that can really build a connection with other entrepreneurs out there that also want to save time. So yeah, that that sounds like it's going to be an awesome, I assume it's going to be, you know, organic, social, as well as like a YouTube channel, as well as on your website the whole bit with the videos.

Andrew Smith:

Yes. And yes, the the social is also something we should we and we will focus a little more on next year, I know organic, social is not a great thing. But in terms of a full more defined strategy than the one we have that that is something we will also be looking at, it's still a very important channel for us. And, you know, that's, that's one thing we we will focus on a little more, but again, it's data driven and organic social doesn't in its own way, generate leads, it's part of that ecosystem where people will will go to your Facebook page if they've heard about you. So yes, giving, giving strategies for that is something we need were also look out for for next year. So within the same within the same sort of channels, but but improving what's on there and saying, okay, these, these are the three things we can improve on and focus on with the time of the bandwidth we that isn't necessarily budget driven is more these channels people are using, we need to optimize the metaphor for what they thought they'd see.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome, excited to see what 2022 holds for leap and for yourself as well. I hope our listeners really enjoyed this, I always enjoy talking to Andrew because it's you sort of get a snapshot like an x ray vision as to what your data driven b2b digital marketing should look like. And I think that all the things we covered here today, give give, you know, should give you a really good sense and see what your organization or yourself might be missing in your marketing. Ngo, where can people find out more about leap as well as connect with you,

Andrew Smith:

you can connect with me on social at Andrew Smith 1443, that is my Facebook, my LinkedIn, my Instagram, and you can find out more at leap at leap to digital.com.

Neal Schaffer:

You know, I've never asked you about that. 1443 Is there a story?

Andrew Smith:

So it's my name, obviously, Andrew Smith, there are quite a few Andrew Smith's and I use the last four digits of my cell phone number, because Andrew Smith, like I was like, Well, you know, 592? I mean, why would I choose that? So I was like, well, I'll just go all the way up. And so when I set up my Gmail 1443 was available, because I know Andrew Smith had gone that far yet. So I was like, so yes. When I first started out, one of my good friends is like, you know, you've got to sort of brand yourself personally like that. So I've used you know, I've used my 1443 across all of my platforms for so that people could find me. So I'm stuck with my Gmail and my phone number for the rest of my life.

Neal Schaffer:

Very cool. Yeah, it's funny. I have my name on every social platform, except some that I'm a little bit late to join. And so I'm thinking what do I you know, if I can't get it, do you do Neal Schaffer, which is my middle initial, do you add a number at the end? So it's good food for thought? Thank you, my friend. All right. Well, appreciate the time and we'll continue to keep in touch.

Andrew Smith:

All right now. Thanks again for your time and for the group really appreciate. Alrighty,

Neal Schaffer:

I hope you enjoyed that interview. It was almost like two friends at a bar geeking out over b2b marketing. But you know, sometimes the best conversations happen in those moments. And in fact, this podcast in its very earliest conception was called Social Business unplugged, so that you're sort of a fly on the wall listening in these conversations. But I had had a part of my digital first mastermind community, I offer free 30 minute consultations every 90 days. So it was actually on that 90 Day console. When I was talking with Andrew and going over his entire program that I realized that wow, he basically has all the bases covered, and the ones he doesn't have covered are on his radar. And he has a process in place so that he knows how to invest, where to invest, and how to measure and optimize that over time. That data driven approach is something I've talked about ever since maximize your social way back in 2013. And it is the hallmark of any successful digital and social media marketing strategy. program that exists. So hope you enjoy that. Please make sure if you haven't you click that or you hit or whatever you want to call it, that subscribe button and make sure that you are, you know, kept the tune of all the content covered from here. I know that the publishing schedule has been a little bit wonky, the last few months, I've been trying to play catch up very soon, we're going to be back on that weekly schedule. But until then, don't be surprised if you see some weeks where I'm actually publishing two episodes, because I do have my own objective of publishing X number of episodes this year. And I want to make sure I hit it. And then we'll get back to our weekly cadence. So thanks for hanging along with me on this journey. You know, it's funny, hopefully you learn a lot. But I also learn a lot, not just when I do interviews with folks like Andrew, but even in my own solo episodes, even talking like this. It provides me an educational experience, I learn more about my own business, my own understanding myself. So thank you for taking part in my education as well. If you find any takeaways that you've used in your business, I'd love to hear from you. Follow me and DM me on social like Neal Schaffer, you can email me Neal at Neal Schaffer calm, or obviously, you can write a review and let me know in the format of a review, which is really critical to exposing this podcast to more people. And that's why I asked with almost every episode, but I really appreciate it if you had a minute. And if you do, let me know. Alright, that's it. Well, and here we are now halfway through q4. I have a lot of objectives that have yet to hit for various reasons. I'm going to try to finish the year strong. I hope that you do too. And that's all for this episode. This is your digital marketing coach Neal Schaffer signing out. You've been listening to your digital marketing coach, questions, comments, requests, links, go to podcast dot Neal schaffer.com. Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes, and Neal schaffer.com to tap into the 400 Plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your business. While you're there, check out Neil's Digital First group coaching membership community if you or your business needs a little helping hand. See you next time on your digital marketing coach.