Ranking in ChatGPT & AI Overviews: The Ultimate AEO vs. GEO Guide

[00:00:00] What do you need to know today to make better use of your digital marketing strategy? Well, today I'm going to break down the difference between AEO and GEO, maybe some terms you've heard in the AI SEO world, but more importantly give you actionable steps that you can take today to increase your visibility and discoverability in the SEO of tomorrow. But today, right now, you've got to stay listening to this next episode of the Your Digital Marketing Coach Podcast.

[00:00:28] Social Media Content Influencer Marketing Blogging Podcasting Vlogging TikToking LinkedIn Twitter Facebook Instagram YouTube SEO SEM PPC Email Marketing Whew! There's a lot to cover. Whether you're a marketing professional, entrepreneur or business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert advice.

[00:00:54] Good thing you've got Neal on your side. Because Neal Schaffer is your Digital Marketing Coach. Helping you grow your business with digital first marketing, one episode at a time. This is your Digital Marketing Coach and this is Neal Schaffer.

[00:01:18] Hey everybody, this is your Digital Marketing Coach Neal Schaffer and welcome to my podcast and your home for anything and everything. Digital, content, influencers, social media marketing, all of the digital threads that you need to cover in order to be successful with your business, leveraging digital and social media.

[00:01:37] This is the long-awaited episode number 438. I have a story to tell all of you. I had episode 438 queued up. It was going to be released as I released the second edition of my upcoming book, Maximizing LinkedIn for Business Growth. I went to Japan for a month. My first experience of being a digital nomad and I learned one very, very important lesson. It is very hard to get a lot of work done in a hotel room together with your significant other.

[00:02:06] So, lesson learned. Back in the U.S., busy last few weeks, but I'm getting back on my feet, getting ready to prepare for the release of that second edition. Had to make some tweaks to it, some technical changes that have delayed things, but that is coming. But, hey, it's been two months since my last episode and it gives me a little bit of what I love to talk about here, historical perspective, to be able to bring you what I think is the most important topic to talk about today.

[00:02:33] So, today I want to talk about something that's been creating a lot of confusion in the digital marketing world. And, frankly, I think it's time that we cleared the air. Now, in my Digital First group coaching community, which you're all invited to join, neilshafer.com slash membership, where every week I help entrepreneurs and business owners really get through what they need to do to leverage digital as their strategic engine to grow their business.

[00:02:59] So, one week at a time, one Zoom call at a time, just like that, today's podcast, we're going to be diving into AEO versus GEO or answer engine optimization versus generative engine optimization. Something that came up on a recent call because I think we've always been talking about GEO and then the term AEO comes up. And, well, what's going on? What do we need to do? What do we need to know?

[00:03:21] So, before your eyes or your ears glaze over at all these acronyms, stick with me because understanding this is going to be critical for your business's visibility in 2025 and beyond. But before I get to that, I want to share some industry news, which I'm following, which I think is going to be really important to the conversation today.

[00:03:43] So, we're seeing more and more data showing up that shows that half of all search queries now involve AI in some way. I think I mentioned this on an earlier podcast many moons ago, but I heard this from a Microsoft partner, but a Microsoft executive shortly after the release of ChatGPT, which, if you remember, was November of 2022, said that in two years, search queries will, or traditional search queries as we know them will be reduced by 50%.

[00:04:13] And we're finally starting to see that. So, half of all searches, half, I mean, think about that, right? Whether it's Google's AI overviews, whether it's ChatGPT search, perplexity, or any of these tools, more and more people are getting more and more answers without ever clicking on a traditional search result. Now, this is what they call the zero-click search environment. It's actually been around for a while for those that follow SEO and all the featured snippets and everything in Google search results,

[00:04:42] but it's only going to grow with AI. And obviously, a lot of the growth is happening outside of the traditional search engine and Google ecosystem. So, what does this mean for you as a business owner entrepreneur? It means the old playbook of just optimizing for Google rankings isn't enough anymore. You need to optimize for being cited, for being referenced, for being the source that AI tools trust and pull from. And that's exactly what we're going to talk about today. Now, another data point that I want to throw into this,

[00:05:12] seeing that I'm about to publish my second edition of Maximizing LinkedIn for Business Growth, is that LinkedIn has always been cited as being the most trusted social media network by professionals. Now, I mention that because the trust factor is going to become even more important in this AI era. Because AI engines are prioritizing content from trusted, authoritative sources. So, if you're not already building your authority, your credibility online,

[00:05:41] whether that's through LinkedIn, your blog, or other platforms, now is the time to start. Because AI is watching and AI is learning who the trusted voices are in every industry. All right. So, without further ado, let's dive into today's main topic. AEO versus GEO. Are they the same? What's the difference? And why should you care? So, first of all, let me start by saying this. A lot of these so-called experts out there are going to tell you these are completely different things

[00:06:10] that require completely different strategies, which is not entirely true. In fact, I'd argue that AEO and GEO are really two sides of the same coin. They are part of the same playbook. The underlying optimization principles overlap significantly. But the goal for both is the same. To make your content discoverable, trustworthy, and useful for AI engines, whether they be large language models like ChachiPT or Cloud or Perplexity,

[00:06:37] or they are traditional search engines that are leveraging more AI functionality like Google's AI overviews. But there are some important distinctions that I hinted at that you need to understand. So, let me break it down for you. Answer engine optimization, AEO, is focused on optimizing your content to provide direct, concise answers in search results. This is nothing new. Think about Google's featured snippets, those answer boxes that appear at the top of search results.

[00:07:05] Think about voice search results when you ask Siri or Alexa a question. That, in essence, is AEO territory. The goal here is to be the answer. You want your content structured so that if someone asks a question, your answer is the one that gets pulled and displayed. Now, GEO, or generative engine optimization, is going to take this a step further. GEO is about optimizing your content to be cited, referenced, or incorporated into synthesized AI-generated summaries.

[00:07:36] Things like ChatGPT search, Perplexity AI, Google's AI overviews, Bing Copilot, and all these other generative AI tools. With GEO, the AI is not just extracting a quick answer from your content. It's actually synthesizing information from multiple sources to create a comprehensive response. And often it'll have multiple citations. So your goal is to make sure your content is one of those trusted sources that gets included. But here's the key difference.

[00:08:07] AEO is about extraction. Your content needs to be structured so machines can easily parse it and pull out a specific piece of information as a direct response to a query. Think of the FAQ schema. Have a question, have an answer that is in the approximate length that an AI overview, or I should say featured snippet, might want to use because of its conciseness. Now, GEO is about synthesis.

[00:08:36] Rather than just extracting direct answers, generative engines are stitching together information from multiple sources to create new and unique responses. With GEO, you're optimizing to ensure your content is useful in a generative response by building trust, citations, and digital signals that tell an AI model that your information is reliable. Okay, so two very different things. Now, in terms of platforms, AEO has traditionally focused on winning featured snippets in Google, appearing in knowledge panels,

[00:09:06] and ranking well for voice search on assistants like Siri and Alexa. GEO expands this concept to the entire AI ecosystem, which includes those large language models, including Google Gemini that I mentioned before. All of these platforms are creating comprehensive conversational answers. Now, here's what is interesting, and this is something I really want you to understand. While there are these distinctions, the most effective approach today is a hybrid strategy.

[00:09:34] You don't choose between AEO and GEO. You do both. Because at the end of the day, whether you're optimizing for a featured snippet or for being cited in a chat GPT response, you're following many of the same core principles. So, your next question I'm sure you're asking is, okay, Neil, well, what are those core principles? What are the strategies that work for both AEO and GEO? Well, let me walk you through what I believe are the five foundational strategies that every entrepreneur and small business owner

[00:10:04] should implement right now, and these are things that I am working on with my own blog and digital presence as well. Strategy number one, answer-focused content. Both AEO and GEO require you to create content that directly answers high-intent user questions. This means you need to lead with clarity. Get to the point. Don't bury your answer in paragraph five. Put it right up front. Ideally, in the first 100 words, think about the questions your customers are actually asking

[00:10:33] and answer them clearly and concisely. No fluff. And while if you are creating a blog post based around keywords that are all related to one single question, yes, definitely put that at the very beginning. I think a strategy for a lot of us is also to include various questions throughout our content. H2 headers that used to be statements can also be structured as questions with a concise answer after it before getting to your next paragraphs.

[00:11:01] You can also obviously add FAQ schema at the end, which a lot of people do, or you don't even necessarily need to add FAQ schema. You could simply put the questions in an H2 or H3 so that they are captured by the LLM and then provide the answers without that schema, which is something that I see a lot of and it's something I am starting to do myself on my newer blog posts. So I was talking about H2, H3, these headers that are readable by machines

[00:11:29] that point out that these are important points, titles, subtitles, what have you. So strategy number two is all about that concept of structured content with clear formatting. Both optimization types demand content that is easily machine readable. AI models favor content that is well-structured and easy to parse. So this means using descriptive H2 and H3 subheadings, as I mentioned, bullet points, numbered lists,

[00:11:58] and tables to organize your information logically. Think of it this way. If a machine is going to read your content, you want to make it as easy as possible for that machine to understand exactly what each section is about and extract the relevant information. I have started to do this with my content, less longer paragraphs, more shorter paragraphs, together with bullet points and number lists where they make sense and try to include a table or two in every blog post that I do. Strategy number three,

[00:12:26] credibility and trust signals. Part of what Google calls EEAT, experience, expertise, authoritativeness, and trustworthiness. Very long words. AI models prioritize content from sources that demonstrate these qualities. This actually has a lot of meaning behind it, but at a minimum, you need to have clear author bios with relevant credentials. I see some companies not only have authors, but say that this was fact-checked or this was further edited by another person to give it even more authority.

[00:12:56] I'm not sure if that's a successful strategy or not. It may be a little much, but if you're a large organization, you could go that far as well. But you need to also, in your content, cite reputable sources and links to studies, industry data, and authoritative domains. If you are going to say something, you better be linking to something and it better be an authoritative source. And I think this is something that, man, you know, AI-generated content is just making stats up or it may be referring to stats, but if you're not putting a source behind it,

[00:13:25] you're going to be missing the point here. So this includes, even the advice I've seen is to actually say the source of that data. So if it came from a blog post from Buffer, say according to Buffer, those little things can do a lot in terms of making it look like you are a reputable source. Now, this also includes expert quotes, data citations. I mean, AI is essentially acting as a fact checker and it's looking for signals that your content is trustworthy and accurate.

[00:13:54] We all know for traditional SEO, having external links to authoritative sources is good SEO, right? So we want to take that to the next level now with this third strategy about credibility and trust signals. At least those things that we could do on-page trust signals. Off-page trust signals is a whole other area, just like off-page SEO with backlinking is a whole other area of optimization. But let me go to strategy number four. Once again, I'm talking about things

[00:14:22] that we can immediately start doing today. Entity optimization. This is about consistently naming your brand, your products, and your experts and clearly identifying them using structured data. So what's an entity? Well, it's basically a concept that AI understands. So when you establish clear entities, whether it's your brand name, your product names, or the names of experts on your team, and you're talking about these things consistently in a lot of your content,

[00:14:50] you're helping AI build a semantic network that includes you. So this is critical, whether you're optimizing for a snippet or an AI summary. I think this is pretty natural, but maybe you want to ensure you're including these entity names in more and more of your content if you haven't been. And then strategy number five is structured data or schema markup. This is the technical implementation that helps both traditional search engines and AI models understand your content.

[00:15:19] So this includes FAQ, how to QA page article organization. I think most of us have already done this. It's more on the technical part, but this markup does tell search engines and AI systems equally. Here's a question. Here's the answer. Here's who wrote this. Here's what organizations is from. It improves parsing and extractability, which is exactly what you want. So this hints that maybe those questions you should structure in an FAQ schema,

[00:15:47] but obviously a lot of these things you should have already been doing even before the emergence of AI. So those are the five strategies that work for both AEO and GEO. But let me give you some specific tactics for each of these because there are some nuances that you should understand. For AEO specifically, you want to really focus on being concise. Target question-based queries. Think about the exact questions that people are asking,

[00:16:16] especially conversational long-tail queries. Optimize specifically for featured snippets by using the formatting Google loves. Bullet points, tables, short paragraphs of around 50 to 60 words. And really focus on voice search optimization. Try to use natural conversational language that matches how people actually speak when they ask questions out loud. We're getting into the era of conversational search. So instead of thinking of traditional search and traditional keywords,

[00:16:44] we're thinking of now conversational search and conversational phrases. Different way of thinking about SEO and discoverability going forward. Now for GEO specifically, you want to focus on depth and comprehensiveness. Definitely seen a trend of more in-depth and comprehensive content out there. Don't just answer the surface level question. Think in terms of layers. Answer the what, the why, the how, give pros and cons, provide examples. Cover the topic thoroughly

[00:17:13] so that your content just might become the most complete source on that subject. And also focus in doing so, focus on becoming a cited source by publishing together with everything I mentioned, original research, case studies, or white papers that are unique that really come from your company, right? LLMs love to reference original first party research because it establishes authority and they're always looking for that, right? And think about diversifying your content channels.

[00:17:43] AI engines don't just pull from your website. They pull from Reddit, Quora, LinkedIn, YouTube, everywhere. So you need to build your brand presence across the entire digital ecosystem. This is why at the beginning people were saying this isn't search engine optimization, this is search everywhere optimization, but this is what they meant when they said that. Now, if you are a local business, AEO and GEO are absolutely critical for you because local searchers are often conducted

[00:18:13] via voice assistance and they account for a huge percentage of Google queries. So if this is you, what should you do? Well, first, local search always starts with your Google business profile and making sure it is fully optimized. Keep your hours, address, categories, and services updated. Put it in your Google calendar to do this on a monthly basis or quarterly basis. Voice assistants rely on verified Google business profile information to answer local questions. Second,

[00:18:43] maintain NAP consistency, name, address, phone number. It must be identical across all online listings. Your website, your Google business profile, your local directories, everywhere. Inconsistent information confuses search engines and AI tools and you'll lose out on visibility. So everything I talked about here is standard local SEO, right? But here's something unique to the GEO era. Focus on unlinked mentions. Now, unlike traditional SEO where backlinks were king,

[00:19:13] with GEO, even unlinked brand mentions on high authority sites significantly strengthen your position as an entity within AI semantic network. So getting mentioned even without the backlink on industry blogs, news sites, Reddit threads, even without a link back to your site is valuable now. This is what we are calling part of digital PR which once again is nothing new but it has increased value in the era of GEO. So, we've covered the main strategies.

[00:19:43] I want to now talk about measurement because this is where things get a little tricky and there's a lot of different opinions on the matter. Traditional SEO metrics like organic traffic and keyword rankings, while still important, don't tell the whole story anymore. Well, it's because AEO often leads more and more to zero click answers. So when searches a question gets the answer right there in the featured snippet and never clicks through to your site and with the GEO, your content might be synthesized into an AI generated answer

[00:20:13] without any attribution or link at all. So how do you measure success? Well, with AEO, one common opinion is that if you are getting more mentions in Google search results, whether they're zero click answers or not, you will be seeing more impressions in your Google search console. Probably fewer clicks as just the ability to click decreases in traditional search results, but a lot of people are now monitoring

[00:20:42] impressions, which I know is not going to please a lot of people. It's more of a fluff metric, but we are getting back to the days of, are we getting impressions for our content? The days of billboards, right? Those are now becoming digital billboards in the AI overviews and the LLMs and featured snippets and everything, but for AEO specifically, if we are successful in this, we should be seeing increased impressions, which hopefully over time will lead to increased clicks. Now, on the other hand, for GEO,

[00:21:11] you need to begin tracking AI visibility metrics, and there are a number of tools that have emerged to help in this effort, but it means monitoring citation frequency. How often is your content being referenced by LLMs like ChachiPT, Perplexity, Google Gemini, Claude, when people are doing the searches that you want to be found for? And what is the sentiment when they do those searches? How often is your brand being mentioned in AI-generated answers and is the sentiment positive? So this relates to AEO,

[00:21:42] AI overviews in Google as well. And yes, still track featured snippet wins because those traditional answer boxes are still valuable for AEO. So there's fewer clicks. The keyword ranking is still important, don't mean as much because everything is being pushed down and there's a lot of search happening outside of traditional search engines. So Google Search Console impressions and starting to track our visibility in large language models for GEO. So I know what some of you are thinking.

[00:22:11] Neil, if people are getting answers without clicking through to my site, how does this help my business? Which is a great question and it's the same question that I have been asking for the last several months. But here's the thing. AEO and GEO establish brand authority and awareness at the start of the customer journey. Even if someone doesn't click immediately, you're building perceived authority. And when that person is ready to make a purchase decision, guess who they're going to think of? The brand they've seen cited as an expert source

[00:22:40] multiple times. This leads to higher intent traffic and improved conversion rates later on. And there is a lot of data that suggests that traffic that does come from LLMs, for instance, is more targeted with a higher intent and therefore converts better. So, let me give you a practical example of how this might play out. Let's say you run a local accounting firm and someone asks ChatGPT, what tax deductions can I claim as a freelancer? If your blog post about freelance

[00:23:10] tax deductions has been optimized for GEO, ChatGPT might synthesize an answer that includes information from your post and cites you as a source. That person now sees your firm's name associated with expert tax advice. They might not visit your website right then, but when tax season comes around and they need an accountant, your name just might be top of mind. And that's the power of being visible in AI-generated answers. Once again, we're getting back to this concept of new digital billboards. All right,

[00:23:39] so let me give you some more specific action steps. I want to give you a checklist that sort of summarizes a lot of what I already talked about and putting it together in a, well, let's give it seven steps that I've noted down here. So, action step number one, audit your existing content. Look at your blog posts, your website pages, your FAQ sections. Are you answering questions clearly and concisely? Is your most important information front and loaded? If not, update your content

[00:24:09] and leave with the answer. One thing that I have started to do, I don't put, you know, if I have a paragraph, maybe the second header or the second paragraph of a blog post might be defining what that topic or concept that I'm talking about is, like what is influencer marketing, I will definitely structure that first sentence or two right underneath that header so that it might be picked up by featured snippets, right? But another thing I am doing, and if you are a premium member of Yoast SEO, it is now able to immediately generate

[00:24:38] AI summaries of your blog post. So I am putting that up front and setter so it's very, very clear what this blog post is about and once again gives more semantic clues to large language models as to why they should be looking at my blog post front and center without me having to give all the answers front and center. So that's a real easy action step that I think we can all do. And I think if you look around to content that is doing well in large language model search, I mean, just do some searches and go to the blog

[00:25:07] posts and I tend to look at the HubSpots, the SEMrushes, the Ahrefs, you know, companies that are in SEO for a business are the ones that have the most on the line and the ones that are experimenting the most with this and therefore I think that they're often exhibiting best practices. I'll throw back lingo in there as well. So I often look at what they are doing to get ideas and this is something I definitely see them and other leading sites doing. All right, action step number two, implement structured data. So if you have Q&A content,

[00:25:37] implement FAQ page schema, article schema on your blog posts. If you're not technical, there's plugins and tools. I think that Yoast also allows you to do this. Like I said, whether you actually need to include that FAQ schema or just naturally include the questions and answers is still up for debate, but all the other schema, you should obviously make sure that your technical SEO bases are covered. And once again, Yoast plugin, if you're on WordPress, allows you to easily do this, but there are other schema plugins if you want to go that route as well. Action step three,

[00:26:07] build your credibility signals. Make sure every piece of content has a clear author bio, cite your sources, link the reputable data. If you have any original research case studies or unique data, publish it and promote it. Action step four, optimize for conversational queries, right? We're in the era of conversational search. Make a list of the questions your customers ask you most frequently. Create content that answers those questions in a natural conversational way. Use headings that are phrased as questions.

[00:26:36] We're going back to the days of Marcus Sheridan, they ask you answer, right? Something that we've been talking about for quite some time, but I think in the world of SEO and keyword research, we might have lost our way a little bit. We want to get back to answering those questions in a conversational way. Action step number five, claim and optimize your Google business profile if you haven't already. And if you're local business, this is not negotiable. I assume you've already done it. Make sure your NAP information is consistent everywhere online. Action step six, start

[00:27:06] tracking your AI visibility. You can set up Google alerts for your brand name. A lot of the SEO tools are bringing out this new tracking ability, but also you yourself periodically search for your business in ChatGPT, perplexing and other AI tools to see if and how you're being mentioned. Document what you find and if you don't like the way you're being mentioned, make sure that you optimize the content that you control to try to control that narrative. And action step

[00:27:35] number seven, create a content strategy that builds depth. Don't just create surface level blog posts. You will be invisible or that content is going to be invisible real quick. Go deep on topics that matter to your industry and you know what? If they don't matter to your industry, don't bother publishing that content at all. It's just going to be a wasted effort in my honest opinion. I have already been pruning my targeted keywords and phrases and questions. I've been pruning that

[00:28:04] over some time to really focus on those core content areas that are most important in my business and I highly recommend you do the same. So become the definitive source on key subjects. Publish original insights, data, and research wherever and whenever possible. So I want to address something that I know is probably on your mind as you hear all this. Some of you might be thinking this sounds like a lot of work. Do I really need to do all this?

[00:28:33] My answer is an unfortunate yes if you want to stay visible and competitive in the next five years because the reality is AI is not going away. It's only going to become more integrated in how people search for and discover information. Businesses that adapt to this new reality now are going to have a significant advantage over those who wait. But here's the good news. A lot of what I'm describing isn't necessarily creating new work. A lot of it is about doing what you're

[00:29:03] already doing but doing it with AI visibility in mind. If you're already creating content just structure it better. If you're already answering customer questions document those answers in a format that AI can understand and cite. If you're already building your reputation make sure that reputation is visible across the digital ecosystem not just on your own site. And I am all about systems and processes so those seven steps I gave you you can work these into processes that say okay when we publish a new blog post or create

[00:29:32] new content we're just going to make sure that we have these things baked in. And then you start that with your new blog post maybe the ones that you've already scheduled and then you start to go back to your old blog post and you implement this. And this is how you could do it without losing your mind in all honesty. And if you remember the previous episode where I unveiled my Ask Neil AI framework and my previous episodes of how I did this workshop for college students. You know I teach entrepreneurs how to use

[00:30:02] AI for content creation through systematic context building rather than just chasing the latest prompts. And that same framework applies here. When you're building proper context when you create comprehensive well-structured content based on your own ideal customer profile your own experiences your own brand you're naturally optimizing for both AEO and GEO. It is not separate work. It's integrated in how you approach content creation from the start. And that is really the key to being successful

[00:30:32] at all of this. One more thing I want to mention before we wrap up and I know this was a longer solo episode but it's been a while so had a lot to catch up on. There is a lot of debate in the industry right now about whether AEO and GEO are truly separate disciplines or just advanced AI centric SEO. And honestly I think that's the wrong question to be asking. The label doesn't matter. What matters is that you understand how AEO is changing visibility one of the three

[00:31:01] major digital threads I talk about in digital threads and you adapt accordingly. Whether you call it AEO, GEO, LLMO, AIO, LMAO or just smart content marketing the principles are the same. Create valuable, well structured, trustworthy content that answers real questions and serves real needs. That's what's always worked and that's what will continue to work whether it's a human or an AIO. Consuming your content. So to wrap this up

[00:31:31] let me summarize those key takeaways. Number one, AEO and GEO are two sides of the same coin. AEO focuses on providing direct concise answers for snippets and voice search. GEO focuses on comprehensive content that can be cited in AI generated summaries. But the core strategies overlap significantly. Number two, the five foundational strategies that work for both are answer focused content, structured formatting, credibility signals, entity optimization and schema markup.

[00:32:00] You get those right, you're 80% of the way there. Number three, local businesses need to prioritize Google business profile optimization and NAP consistency more than ever. Voice search and AI tools rely heavily on this information. Number four, measure success beyond just traffic. Track citation frequency, brand mentions, sentiment in AI generators responses and impressions in Google Search Console. And number five, start now.

[00:32:30] The businesses that adapted this AI driven search landscape today are going to have a significant competitive advantage tomorrow. All right. So that is the scoop on AEO versus GEO. And I hope this cleared up some of the confusion and gave you more importantly, some actionable steps you can take today. And look, if this feels overwhelming, you're not alone. This is exactly why I created my group coaching community Digital First to help entrepreneurs and business owners navigate these kinds of shifts in digital marketing. We meet regularly.

[00:33:00] I answer questions. We walk through strategies together. If you're interested, head over to neilshafer.com slash membership and check it out. And before I go, I want to remind you that we have some great interviews coming up. I always have a stockpile of interviews that are recorded one, two, three months in advance. So I can't wait to share all that with you. Just make sure you hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any of these conversations. And if you're new here, every other episode is an interview with an expert and every other

[00:33:30] interview or I should say episode is a solo episode with me, Neil Schaefer. And obviously, if you have any questions about anything I talked about, AEO, GEO, AI visibility, anything related to digital marketing, feel free to reach out to me. Neil at neilshafer.com. I read every email and I do my best to respond to everyone. All right, my friends, that is all there is for this episode. This is your digital marketing coach, Neil Schaefer signing off. You've been listening to

[00:34:00] your digital marketing coach. Questions, comments, requests, links, go to podcast.neilshafer.com. Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes at neilshafer.com to tap in to the 400 plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your business. While you're there, check out Neil's digital first group coaching membership community. If you or your business needs a little helping hand,

[00:34:28] see you next time on your digital marketing coach.