Today we dive deep into the world of personality-led growth and brand building with our special guest, Andy Lambert, co-founder of ContentCal and Senior Product Manager at Adobe Express. In this episode, we explore the crucial role of understanding customer pain points, especially in the realms of remote work and inside sales.
Throughout the episode, Andy highlights the evolution of social media from a sales channel to a platform for building genuine relationships, the importance of influencer and creator collaborations, and the power of employee branding in strengthening company reputations. Whether you're a marketer, entrepreneur, or simply interested in the future of digital marketing, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss.
So, get ready to learn how to build powerful brands through personality-led growth, understand your customers on a deeper level, and engage with influential communities for sustainable business success. Tune in now!
GUEST LINKS
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Learn More:
- Buy Maximizing LinkedIn for Business Growth: https://nealschaffer.com/maximizinglinkedinforgrowth
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- All My Podcast Show Notes: https://podcast.nealschaffer.com
Speaker 1: Personality-led growth.
00:00:02
It's a term that's reshaping the way that we think about
00:00:04
building brands, but do you know how to leverage it to skyrocket
00:00:08
your own business?
00:00:08
From understanding your customers' pain points to
00:00:11
collaborating with influencers, there is a whole world of
00:00:15
strategies waiting to be explored.
00:00:16
With my special guest today, we're going to dive deep into
00:00:20
the future of Adobe Express, because my guest is a product
00:00:23
manager at Adobe.
00:00:23
The magic of Adobe Express, because my guest is a product
00:00:24
manager at Adobe.
00:00:24
The magic of webinars and the pivotal role of personal
00:00:27
branding.
00:00:28
Speaker 2: We're going to cover a lot of ground, so make sure
00:00:30
you stay tuned to this next episode of the your Digital
00:00:39
Marketing Coach, podcast, blogging, podcasting, vlogging,
00:00:41
tiktok, linkedin, twitter, facebook, instagram, youtube,
00:00:45
seo, sem, ppc, email marketing there's a lot to cover.
00:00:52
Whether you're a marketing professional, entrepreneur or
00:00:56
business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert
00:00:59
advice.
00:01:00
Good thing you've got Neil on your side, because Neil Schaefer
00:01:05
is your digital marketing coach , helping you grow your business
00:01:13
with digital-first marketing, one episode at a time.
00:01:18
This is your digital marketing coach, and this is Neil Schaefer
00:01:22
.
00:01:24
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, this is Neil Schafer, your digital
00:01:27
marketing coach, and welcome to episode number 381.
00:01:31
Before we get into the interview, I'd like to begin
00:01:35
with just a few little tidbits of news that I think you should
00:01:38
be aware of for this week.
00:01:39
First of all, if you have been looking anywhere in the
00:01:43
blogosphere at the news, you'll know that this is the week that
00:01:46
Facebook Meta had their Meta Connect event, where they made a
00:01:51
lot of announcements.
00:01:51
Now, not all of the announcements were related to
00:01:54
social media marketing.
00:01:55
You know, meta owns WhatsApp.
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They also have their VR headset , and there were a lot of
00:02:03
various announcements.
00:02:04
I guess, for my perspective, the one that I thought was
00:02:06
interesting that I think you should pay attention to is that
00:02:09
Mark Zuckerberg said that Meta AI now has nearly 500 million
00:02:13
users.
00:02:14
That is a lot of users that, when we think of Facebook as an
00:02:18
old person's network, obviously this includes WhatsApp and
00:02:21
Instagram, so we don't know where those 500 million users
00:02:23
are, but there is a growing adoption of AI across Meta's
00:02:27
platforms, and this includes AI integrations in apps like
00:02:32
Instagram, facebook and WhatsApp .
00:02:33
And that Zuckerberg highlighted Meta's continuous efforts to
00:02:38
enhance user experiences with AI-driven features and emphasize
00:02:42
the role that AI is playing in Meta's future, particularly in
00:02:47
expanding its influence in the digital ecosystem and engaging
00:02:50
users across various products and services.
00:02:52
So that is one to be on the lookout for.
00:02:54
I know that, even in their ad product, that Meta is
00:02:59
increasingly leveraging AI.
00:03:01
And I talk about ad products because the other bit of news
00:03:04
that I thought is really interesting is that TikTok
00:03:07
entered the search ads market in the United States.
00:03:09
You can now target users using TikTok ads through search
00:03:15
queries on the platform, which really positions TikTok as a
00:03:19
small but nevertheless competitor to Google and other
00:03:22
search ad platforms.
00:03:23
Because we know, or those of you that do know, that TikTok
00:03:26
has a growing user base who increasingly use the app for
00:03:29
discovery.
00:03:29
And with this, tiktok's ad revenue potential expands
00:03:34
because now brands can leverage search intent to reach potential
00:03:37
customers, especially younger audiences, directly through the
00:03:40
app search functionality via the ads platform.
00:03:43
So one more reason that your brand, your business, really
00:03:48
needs to pay attention to TikTok .
00:03:50
And you know, launching a business account is just like
00:03:54
launching a Facebook business account.
00:03:55
Get access to the ad platform, play around with it and it's all
00:03:58
about A-B testing.
00:03:59
You never know what cost per click, cost per conversion is
00:04:02
going to be, cost per impression is going to be until you
00:04:04
actually give it a shot.
00:04:06
Those two are my recommendations.
00:04:08
The one that has some action attached to it are the TikTok
00:04:11
search ads, which I think is a truly exciting moment in social
00:04:15
media marketing history.
00:04:17
On the personal news so yes, digital Threads is now finally
00:04:22
available on all the major retailers for pre-order.
00:04:25
It will publish on October 1st.
00:04:27
The pre-order right now is primarily e-book Amazon in the
00:04:31
United States.
00:04:32
Well, you might be able to find it a few more places, but you
00:04:35
can find the paperback.
00:04:36
I'm still working on getting the hardcover, the audiobook and
00:04:39
the companion workbook the paperback edition of that online
00:04:42
as well, but I am running a pre-sales campaign, or I should
00:04:46
say pre-order campaign.
00:04:47
So if you do pre-order before end of day, september 30th, when
00:04:51
it is still called a pre-order because it is not on sale yet
00:04:54
and you send me proof of purchase to neilneilschafercom,
00:04:57
I will invite you to a special webinar that I am doing on
00:05:00
October 1st, all about the different ways in which you can
00:05:03
leverage chat, gpt and AI marketing.
00:05:05
Based on my own personal experiences with some case
00:05:08
studies, some data and this has just been the number one
00:05:11
question, I've been asked by so many people on so many calls
00:05:14
recently that I thought it was a great time to put a webinar
00:05:17
together and invite those people that invest in digital threads
00:05:21
to become part of that.
00:05:22
So, if that is, you, make sure you pre-order on your favorite
00:05:25
platform and send me proof of purchase.
00:05:28
I also wanted to share with you , for those who are still on the
00:05:32
fence about digital threads or maybe you haven't downloaded my
00:05:35
free preview, which you can go to neilschafercom slash
00:05:37
digitalthreads dash preview.
00:05:39
And, by the way, if you want to know where you can purchase
00:05:41
digital threads, go to neilschafercom slash digital
00:05:44
threads and you'll be able to see the links to all the
00:05:46
bookstores where it's currently being sold.
00:05:48
But there is a famous book review organization called
00:05:52
Kirkus Reviews and they're really the diamond standard, or
00:05:57
the gold standard, diamond standard Okay, we'll call them
00:06:00
the gold standard.
00:06:00
That sounds a little bit more natural For book reviews and
00:06:12
what they say goes out to libraries and booksellers.
00:06:14
What have you?
00:06:14
So I was really excited to get a very positive review from
00:06:15
Kirkus Reviews for digital threads.
00:06:16
They can be pretty well, let's just put.
00:06:18
They can be pretty harsh on books, especially when they are
00:06:20
self-published.
00:06:20
But, as you all know, I intended, with digital threads,
00:06:23
to be as good of quality, if not a higher quality, than my
00:06:28
previous books that have been traditionally published and I
00:06:30
know it is possible with self-publishing so really
00:06:33
excited, and I just want to spend a minute here to actually
00:06:36
read what they wrote so that you get a better understanding of
00:06:38
what digital threads is all about, because I often find that
00:06:42
other people I mean it's just like user-generated content
00:06:45
Other people can vouch for your brand, for your products, way
00:06:49
better than you can yourself, and this is another instance of
00:06:52
it.
00:06:52
So here we go A comprehensive guide to managing digital
00:06:55
marketing.
00:06:56
In these pages, digital marketing consultant Schaefer,
00:06:58
whose last book was the Age of Influence in 2020, describes the
00:07:01
altered nature of the consumer world, particularly in the wake
00:07:04
of the COVID-19 pandemic.
00:07:06
He notes what many have cited as the pandemic's effects the
00:07:09
acceleration of the digital consumer, the primacy of digital
00:07:13
outreach and the overwhelming importance of handling online
00:07:15
marketing effectively.
00:07:16
To this end, with the goal of establishing a digital-first
00:07:19
strategy, he proposes a new playbook.
00:07:21
In this playbook, schaefer recommends that businesses and
00:07:24
entrepreneurs concentrate on forming and strengthening
00:07:27
digital threads, a system of online outreach.
00:07:29
If the system is implemented correctly, it will greatly
00:07:32
strengthen a business.
00:07:33
If ignored, it could lead to the risk of being left behind in
00:07:37
what worked yesterday.
00:07:38
He breaks down all of the various digital threads that new
00:07:41
marketers must keep in focus, such as search engine
00:07:43
optimization, which has advanced enormously from the old keyword
00:07:46
stuffing state of pre-COVID-19 days.
00:07:49
He touches on the use of artificial intelligence, but
00:07:51
warns his readers that digital threads is an intensely
00:07:54
person-oriented plan.
00:07:55
You should not lose the soul of how you appear to your
00:07:58
customers and prospects, he cautions.
00:08:00
His chapters are distilled into key takeaways that help the
00:08:04
reader to clarify the large amount of advice and information
00:08:06
they're getting here.
00:08:07
For example, building relationships with algorithms is
00:08:10
about trustworthiness and authority, and backlinks create
00:08:14
validity that your content is useful and trusted.
00:08:16
Absolutely everything is analyzed in terms of enhancing
00:08:19
business.
00:08:20
Schaefer's approach is a winning mixture of the personal and the
00:08:23
professional.
00:08:23
He opens his book by reflecting on how the pandemic affected
00:08:26
his own business as an author, suddenly deprived of book tours,
00:08:29
book signings, readings and so on.
00:08:31
And throughout the book he convincingly stresses that the
00:08:35
strongest, most important aspects of his digital thread
00:08:38
strategy are people, actual personal connections.
00:08:41
Hence his cautions about AI.
00:08:43
When discussing the uses of social media the book's
00:08:46
strongest narrative component, for instance, he advises readers
00:08:49
there is no better way of becoming friends with the social
00:08:52
media algorithm and exposing your business to more social
00:08:55
media users than by feeding the algorithm what it wants platform
00:08:58
authentic content.
00:09:00
He convincingly urges his readers to embrace social media
00:09:03
algorithms as a means of connecting with actual human
00:09:06
beings.
00:09:06
You're telling your brand story , he writes, and you're telling
00:09:09
the story of the consumer within the frame of your brand Show.
00:09:12
Don't sell, as he puts it, even on such quotidian subjects as
00:09:16
building an email list.
00:09:17
He stresses that mere accumulation of data is not
00:09:20
enough.
00:09:20
Companies and entrepreneurs must turn these connections into
00:09:23
conversations is not enough.
00:09:25
Companies and entrepreneurs must turn these connections into
00:09:27
conversations.
00:09:29
Throughout his guide, schaefer directs readers to the
00:09:30
downloadable electronic workbook that accompanies his main text,
00:09:31
which not only distracts from but also undermines the
00:09:33
sufficiency of the main text itself.
00:09:35
Side note there Kirk is as famous.
00:09:37
You're not going to get a 100% golden, happy review.
00:09:40
There's always going to be a little point.
00:09:41
But I'll take that because the companion workbook does serve a
00:09:45
big value, I think, in helping you implement what I teach.
00:09:47
Getting back to the review, but even so, that text abounds with
00:09:50
practical tips and insights born of experience.
00:09:53
Schaefer is entirely right that many small businesses only
00:09:56
hesitantly and incompletely dabble in the digital side of
00:09:59
their marketing.
00:10:00
A Facebook post here, an email blast there, and his book
00:10:03
provides a bracing corrective to this negligence a highly useful
00:10:08
, invigoratingly people-centered approach to digital marketing.
00:10:11
Thank you for indulging me in allowing me to share this review
00:10:15
with you.
00:10:16
Maximizing LinkedIn for Business Growth is still a
00:10:19
bestseller on Amazon, at least here in the United States, in a
00:10:22
few categories, and Digital Threads is already a number one
00:10:25
new release.
00:10:25
In fact, there was a category, I think global marketing in
00:10:29
which both Digital Threads and Maximizing LinkedIn for Business
00:10:31
Growth were in the top 10.
00:10:32
So I cannot be happier and really, I really hope that this
00:10:36
book serves you and I can't wait to hear your feedback about it
00:10:39
once you have it in your hands and you are reading it.
00:10:42
Alrighty Well, you know, when you come out with books, your
00:10:50
personal updates are all about the book.
00:10:51
So I'll stop here.
00:10:51
I want to get into today's interview Now.
00:10:52
Today's special guest is Andy Lambert, and you might remember
00:10:54
him because it was just about a year ago, on episode number 335
00:10:58
back in September 2023, where we talked about uncovering the
00:11:02
secret to B2B growth.
00:11:04
Is social media the answer?
00:11:05
Andy is the author of Social 3.0.
00:11:09
He's one of the co-founders of Content Cal, a social media
00:11:13
scheduling tool that was actually bought out by Adobe,
00:11:16
and now he is at Adobe working as product manager, and he is on
00:11:21
the Adobe Express team, for which I am a proud Adobe Express
00:11:25
ambassador.
00:11:25
I give a little bit deeper intro to Andy in the interview,
00:11:29
so, without further ado, let's get right into it my interview
00:11:32
with Andy Lambert about personality-led growth that I
00:11:35
know you're going to enjoy.
00:11:36
Listen to the end.
00:11:39
Speaker 2: You're listening to your digital marketing coach.
00:11:41
This is Neil Schaefer.
00:11:47
Speaker 1: Your digital marketing coach.
00:11:48
This is Neil Schaefer.
00:11:49
Hey everybody, welcome to another live stream edition of
00:11:52
the your Digital Marketing Coach podcast.
00:11:53
You know it's fun to bring on guests that we've had on before.
00:11:55
Not only do you get to know them better, but I also get
00:12:00
excited by bringing in new ideas from past guests, because the
00:12:05
people that I tend to interview here, or that I like to
00:12:07
interview here, are true innovators in their space, and
00:12:10
today my special guest is another one of those innovators.
00:12:13
His name is Andy Lambert.
00:12:15
He is the author of Social 3.0.
00:12:17
And if you've been a longtime listener or viewer of this
00:12:20
podcast, he was actually not so long ago.
00:12:24
September 7th 2023, episode number 335, uncovering the
00:12:28
Secret to B2B Growth.
00:12:30
Is Social Media the Answer?
00:12:32
For those of you that remember, andy Lammert is one of the
00:12:34
co-founders of Content Cow and he is currently a senior product
00:12:38
manager at Adobe, where he works in the Adobe Express
00:12:41
product, where I am a proud Adobe Express ambassador, and
00:12:45
when I asked him to come on the show the last time, he was
00:12:48
talking about social media for B2B growth, which was a great
00:12:52
topic.
00:12:52
I also want to say that I you see the poster behind me that is
00:12:56
from the Adobe Max conference that Adobe puts on, which I've
00:12:59
gone to two years in a row.
00:13:00
And two years in a row I've seen Andy speak there, and he
00:13:03
was the first one where I heard the term recommended media, the
00:13:07
era of recommended media, which is something that we talk a lot
00:13:09
about today.
00:13:09
So I'm like, andy, what do you have up your sleeve this time?
00:13:12
And yes, andy is going to deliver and he's going to talk
00:13:15
about something.
00:13:16
I also have come to a similar conclusion and, for those of you
00:13:20
that know, I teach this class on personal branding at UCLA
00:13:23
Extension, and although this next book is not out yet, I'm
00:13:27
already working on the next, next book, which I plan to be a
00:13:30
personal branding book, and not just personal branding, but, if
00:13:33
you are an entrepreneur or small business owner, that your
00:13:37
personal branding becomes a central part of your marketing
00:13:40
actually.
00:13:40
So I think that's where the discussion is going to go today.
00:13:43
I don't know.
00:13:44
I'm excited to learn as much as you are, so, without further
00:13:46
ado, I'm going to bring on Mr Andy Lambert.
00:13:48
Andy, thank you so much for coming on today and welcome.
00:13:52
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, neil.
00:13:53
Great to be back on, and it still shocks me that.
00:13:56
How many podcasts that you've done, the fact that September 23
00:14:01
, episode 330 something man, that is a commitment to
00:14:05
consistency.
00:14:06
So much respect.
00:14:08
Speaker 1: Well, I will say why.
00:14:09
I appreciate that.
00:14:10
I will say that the consistency is not always there.
00:14:13
But, andy, at some point I realized that I need to commit
00:14:17
to producing 50 episodes a year.
00:14:19
And if I can stick on a weekly episode or a weekly schedule,
00:14:23
all the best.
00:14:23
If I can't, because I travel like you do, it's okay.
00:14:26
So I'm actually right now playing catch up.
00:14:28
I need to produce an episode every six days in order to get
00:14:31
to 50 by the end of the year.
00:14:33
So it's a weird definition of consistency, but when you're
00:14:36
busy, you know, I think a lot of people forget.
00:14:38
And you know, as a content creator, we expect like, hey,
00:14:42
why didn't you drop a podcast episode like this week on Friday
00:14:44
?
00:14:44
Or a newsletter this week on Thursday?
00:14:46
Or, you know, why didn't you show up on social media today?
00:14:48
It is a lot of work and we all have lives, both professional
00:14:51
and personal, outside of that.
00:14:52
So I appreciate your recognition, my friend.
00:14:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I also like the approach of the fact you've
00:14:57
given yourself a top level goal of doing 50 in a year, because
00:15:01
it was one of the things that held me back from doing another
00:15:03
podcast, because it feels like once you're you've made that
00:15:07
promise to an audience to say I'm going to drop a weekly
00:15:09
podcast, you feel burdened by it to a degree I certainly do
00:15:13
where you're like, oh, I haven't done it, so you feel guilty,
00:15:16
like I'm letting people down, etc.
00:15:18
The reality is people don't really mind as much as you mind,
00:15:21
and it's also a nice perspective you give of giving
00:15:25
yourself a bit of permission and that leniency.
00:15:27
Yeah, you got a top level goal, but life happens.
00:15:30
So, but over time, then.
00:15:32
I think that's the important thing, like over time, you've
00:15:35
committed to that level of consistency, of which has been a
00:15:38
huge reason that you've got to where you've got to and driven
00:15:41
the level of growth that you have.
00:15:42
So massive respect, and the fact that you're just writing
00:15:45
another book and another book on top of that.
00:15:47
I've only done one and that took it out of me.
00:15:49
So, yeah, another one.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: I admire you, for I'm actually in the middle of
00:15:54
writing a trilogy, so that book is only the first of three.
00:15:57
But anyway, I digress.
00:15:58
But yeah, you know you have to give yourself some grace.
00:16:01
You know it's okay if you miss a deadline, because, guess what?
00:16:04
There's a hundred other podcasts, there's a thousand
00:16:06
other newsletters.
00:16:07
Your fans will be served and they will be waiting for you
00:16:13
when you come back.
00:16:13
So I don't like to sweat about it and I think we all need to
00:16:14
find our own groove, and maybe that's my personality and maybe
00:16:18
that's what's led to my personality-led growth, which I
00:16:21
think we're going to talk about today.
00:16:22
But for those that don't know you, andy, I'd love to give you
00:16:25
a minute just to sort of introduce who you are, where you
00:16:28
came from, what you do now, and then we'll go into today's
00:16:32
topic.
00:16:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I'll give you the short version.
00:16:35
Career started in sales, funnily enough, and this was
00:16:49
probably 2008, 2009 and very early user of of social media,
00:16:51
and so the days where I was using tweet deck regularly set
00:16:52
up streams to look for um people that were talking about the
00:16:54
industry that I was in and you know still mourn the loss of
00:16:57
free access to to tweet deck, but never mind, we won't go deep
00:17:01
into x's strategy right now, but it was such a powerful time
00:17:07
where you're setting up those streams, really nascent people
00:17:10
sharing their, their views and perspectives openly, and it was
00:17:14
a really fantastic opportunity for myself to really start
00:17:18
understanding the use of social media and where you could
00:17:23
differentiate.
00:17:23
Because here I am on a sales floor, people hitting the phones
00:17:27
, emailing people, and I was like, well, how can I get an
00:17:29
edge?
00:17:29
And social media gave me that edge and it was also I didn't
00:17:34
know what I was doing at the time.
00:17:35
I just thought, oh, it's just a goldmine of information and
00:17:38
some insight I'm getting and getting a one up on my peers.
00:17:41
Right, because that's a very competitive scenario working on
00:17:45
a sales floor and over time.
00:17:48
Then you know, looking back, that was all personality driven
00:17:52
growth.
00:17:53
Right, because, just innately, like you've known from a lot of
00:17:58
a lot of your career and certainly the period that I've
00:18:00
known you for, neil is that you recognize that people buy from
00:18:05
people and it's incredibly cliche but it's incredibly true.
00:18:08
And investing in building your own brand and investing in
00:18:13
having those one-on-one conversations on social pay
00:18:16
dividends so that gave me my first insight into the power of
00:18:19
social.
00:18:21
And then roll the clock I wanted to always wanted to start my
00:18:24
own business and came across someone that had already created
00:18:29
the idea for what was to become Content Cal and you know I was
00:18:33
sold.
00:18:33
At that point saw the opportunity of scaling what I
00:18:38
just personally gravitated towards and enjoyed, and being
00:18:42
able to provide a platform that allowed people to do that around
00:18:45
the world at scale was just too much of a great opportunity to
00:18:50
pass up, to be honest.
00:18:51
So, yeah, left my corporate job , went to startup land.
00:18:54
That was 2016.
00:18:55
Difficult first couple of years it's fair to say, exciting
00:18:59
first year when you're brand new into a business.
00:19:01
Trying to evaluate your market proposition, evaluate your early
00:19:04
customers and try and win those first 100 customers took a lot
00:19:07
longer than we thought it would.
00:19:09
I think it's probably the case for a lot of startups.
00:19:11
Everything does take a little bit longer than you think it
00:19:14
will.
00:19:14
Then, I think, throughout the COVID times much so I don't want
00:19:18
to remember a lot of that our business boomed because,
00:19:21
naturally, when you've built a platform, a collaborative
00:19:24
platform, to allow people to create content at scale, we were
00:19:27
fortunate enough for our business to really take hold
00:19:30
through then.
00:19:30
And yeah, in August of 21, adobe came knocking on our doors
00:19:34
asking to buy us.
00:19:36
So that's a very short story.
00:19:37
And now I work for Adobe and have the absolute honor and
00:19:40
privilege of building social media technology, but just a
00:19:44
next level of scale, which is pretty amazing to see.
00:19:48
But today we're going to talk about this term that I've come
00:19:53
to.
00:19:54
Speaker 1: And Andy, before you go there, I just want to say so.
00:19:56
I don't know if you know this, but my background before all
00:19:59
this is B2B sales as well.
00:20:02
Speaker 3: Was it.
00:20:03
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what gives us this different
00:20:06
perspective than what a lot of other marketers talk about.
00:20:09
And in fact, you and I were both social sellers before.
00:20:12
We were social media marketers, right?
00:20:14
So I think it's a very, very different mindset and a
00:20:16
different approach and and it's like, oh well, now I know why
00:20:20
andy has all these great ideas, but anyway, all good.
00:20:22
Speaker 3: No, that fascinating.
00:20:24
I did not know that and, without wanting to blow too much
00:20:28
smoke, because that's how I came across you when I was just
00:20:31
looking at influential people on Twitter, because I think that's
00:20:34
where you'd built your largest following at that time.
00:20:36
You were early on Twitter, right?
00:20:38
Speaker 1: right.
00:20:38
Speaker 3: And when I read Age of Influence, it's just like you
00:20:41
.
00:20:41
You know, when you read a book and it just validates your
00:20:43
mental model, someone's put into into words what you were
00:20:46
thinking all along.
00:20:47
That's what like.
00:20:48
That's why I love a great book because you read it and you're
00:20:51
like I definitely thought this all along, but I didn't have a
00:20:55
mental model or a capability to explain it and I think you've
00:20:59
done a great job at shining a light on that.
00:21:01
But still, I may appreciate that and, I'm hoping, the book.
00:21:04
Speaker 1: You say the same thing once it comes out.
00:21:07
Speaker 3: Having seen the kind of like the preview that you're
00:21:09
kind enough to share, I'm sure it will deliver on that.
00:21:12
No doubt, neil, and yeah, maybe you're right.
00:21:15
Maybe that's what gives us a slightly different perspective
00:21:18
on it, where our use of social had to be incredibly intentional
00:21:23
and tactical.
00:21:24
Right, yeah, yeah, it's probably even better word of of
00:21:27
using for it.
00:21:28
Speaker 1: I like to say results driven right in sales, it's all
00:21:31
about how much you sold.
00:21:33
How much you sold last quarter, how much is in your pipeline
00:21:35
for this quarter?
00:21:36
Right?
00:21:37
Speaker 3: exactly.
00:21:37
You know it's like, especially in in lands of startups, sales
00:21:41
floors there's nowhere to hide.
00:21:42
You are your results.
00:21:43
You are only as good as your last quarter, and that gives you
00:21:46
like a level of humility when it comes to choosing the things
00:21:51
that you are going to invest your time in.
00:21:53
Right, because there is nowhere to hide.
00:21:54
So it's not like, oh, that was a good campaign, but, you know,
00:21:57
got a few engagements and impressions but whatever, let's
00:22:00
move on to the next one, and not saying that marketers are not
00:22:03
held to account too, but it's definitely not as cutthroat
00:22:08
having been now in marketing roles nowhere near as cutthroat.
00:22:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, If I told my VP of sales the ROI of this was
00:22:14
all about engagements and impressions, well you know where
00:22:17
I'd be the next day, so it's a different world for sure.
00:22:21
Speaker 3: Exactly that and I think there a another track in
00:22:24
that conversation that I think marketing as a discipline has
00:22:28
probably got a little bit lost and over the last few years
00:22:31
where it's kind of in a difficult position, where
00:22:35
sometimes it's like fluffy and about brand and such and
00:22:38
sometimes, which a lot of people don't truly appreciate I'm
00:22:41
going to talk about brand a bit more today or it's like you know
00:22:45
, marketing have just fallen into a lead gen orientated role,
00:22:49
which is not really where marketing should play either,
00:22:53
and marketing's real job without wanting to sidetrack this
00:22:57
conversation is really to level up and understand the strategy,
00:23:01
to go to market and be the absolute experts on the
00:23:04
customers, to understand the positioning, the value
00:23:06
proposition, the strategic lens that you view your business
00:23:09
through.
00:23:10
That's what marketing is really about.
00:23:12
Basically, anything that touches the market is marketing
00:23:15
and of course there's a load of tactics that fall off that.
00:23:17
And anyway, without getting sidelined too much, on that
00:23:23
thread about marketing vSales, yeah, I'll let you get back to.
00:23:26
Speaker 1: You know, this is the end of our conversation on that
00:23:29
.
00:23:29
You were just about to jump into today's topic.
00:23:30
My apologies there, I'll let you get started on it?
00:23:34
Speaker 3: Not at all.
00:23:34
Not at all Because, well, we've known each other for many years
00:23:37
now, Neil.
00:23:38
So these conversations, whenever we meet in person, they
00:23:40
seem to go in random directions .
00:23:49
Speaker 1: Anyway, meeting person, they seem to go in
00:23:49
random directions anyway.
00:23:50
So I love that To guide it in that direction.
00:23:50
I once did, you know, I sold mainly to Japanese.
00:23:52
I lived in Japan and I mainly sold to Japanese, really big
00:23:53
consumer electronic manufacturers.
00:23:54
And there was one deal that was , you know, a pretty sizable
00:23:56
deal six figure deal, close to seven figures that my boss, the
00:24:00
VP of sales, said, you know, I don't you take it off the
00:24:02
pipeline, I don't think you're going to get the deal.
00:24:04
And I ended up getting that deal and what my boss said was
00:24:07
that, you know, neil, he didn't buy from our company, he bought
00:24:10
from you.
00:24:10
You made the sale.
00:24:12
And I think this is where the sales background and what we're
00:24:15
going to get in today is that we do buy from people we like,
00:24:18
know and trust.
00:24:19
And I think of the example of my brother who's a winemaker,
00:24:23
who has a wine tasting room and when he gets in front of someone
00:24:26
talking about wine, his passion , his knowledge, he's able to
00:24:28
sell the wine.
00:24:29
He's not showing up on social media and it's like, dude, like
00:24:34
you are the ultimate example of.
00:24:36
I think we're going to get to that today.
00:24:38
It's not taking this like oh, you can share wine information
00:24:41
but, like you, are the face of the brand in person, why can't
00:24:49
you translate that to social media?
00:24:50
So I've been working with him and he's doing better on that,
00:24:51
but I think it's a message really for everyone listening.
00:24:52
Whether you're in sales, no matter what place you're in, you
00:24:55
sort of got to get out there and sell yourself.
00:24:57
And I think those are, with AI content, those are the people
00:25:00
that are going to rise to the top, that are going to build
00:25:04
brand loyalty and be able to sell.
00:25:05
So that's my next introduction to the topic and I'll let you
00:25:09
take it away from here, Andy, because once you said you wanted
00:25:12
to talk about personality-led growth, I did a little Google
00:25:14
search and I realized, well, it was the first time I had ever
00:25:17
heard that term, but there's a lot of people talking about this
00:25:19
now and in fact, I was listening to a podcast where
00:25:21
Amanda Natavadad, the creator of the zero-click content concept,
00:25:26
also was talking about the growth of personality brands.
00:25:29
So really excited to get in this topic and, without further
00:25:32
ado, andy, I'll let you take it away from here, thank you.
00:25:35
Speaker 3: I think there's no and I think, yeah,
00:25:38
personality-led growth I think everyone can understand what
00:25:41
that term really means and and really it's a recategorization
00:25:45
of things that we already know, concepts that intellectually we
00:25:50
would understand.
00:25:51
Right, as you'd expect, personality-led growth is
00:25:54
everything you've just mentioned there, which is like your
00:25:56
brother the winemaker, trying to scale what he does outside of
00:26:01
those one-on-one interactions and use social media to scale
00:26:05
that.
00:26:05
So that's a part of it, but it's also a part of it is
00:26:08
collaborating with creators, and I think the interesting thing
00:26:12
that I've and we've all seen of late is, especially in like D to
00:26:16
C, b to C, how this kind of creator and personality led
00:26:22
brand has become a thing.
00:26:23
Right, ryan Reynolds?
00:26:24
Of course, we don't need to talk too much about his
00:26:27
endeavors, but it's amazing to watch what's happening for
00:26:31
personalities getting behind, either not just getting behind
00:26:35
brands, but creating their own brands, and, of course, did they
00:26:38
found those brands themselves?
00:26:39
Most of them, no, absolutely not, but they've supported them
00:26:44
and then they've evangelized for them, and I think this is the
00:26:49
really interesting thing.
00:26:51
Is that you know, to pick on Ryan Reynolds, is Aviation Gin
00:26:54
the best gin that's ever been invented?
00:26:56
Probably likely not, but is it an incredibly valuable brand.
00:27:00
Yes, it very much is why?
00:27:02
Because Ryan Reynolds, and it's an incredible halo effect and
00:27:08
it's really like the next generation of influencer
00:27:11
marketing which has existed since marketing existed.
00:27:14
We buy from people, you know, of course, if we see people we
00:27:17
like and we already trust endorsing something.
00:27:19
But we're now going beyond just influencers getting paid to
00:27:24
promote something.
00:27:25
You know that's a thing and that's not going away.
00:27:28
But we're going to talk about how that will evolve.
00:27:31
But that whole kind of personality driven growth where
00:27:35
those individuals behind the business whether it's celebrity,
00:27:38
or whether it's your brother the winemaker, or whether it's
00:27:41
you and your books, et cetera, whether it's me building a
00:27:44
software company those personality driven brands will
00:27:48
continue to become more powerful .
00:27:51
And before I kind of get your take as well, neil, I mentioned
00:27:55
like that fluffy term of brand and we use that word brand
00:27:59
mostly incorrectly, because typically when you say old brand
00:28:02
, people think, oh, a logo, your typeface or your colors, etc.
00:28:06
That's a component of it, it's your, those distinctive assets.
00:28:10
But your brand really, quite simply, to steal Jeff Bezos, is
00:28:15
what other people say about you when you're not in the room.
00:28:17
It's the impression that you leave with people and that's why
00:28:20
I always ask, like every founder, everyone I'm talking to
00:28:23
about social media is like what do you want to be known for?
00:28:25
Because that people are only going to remember you for one
00:28:29
thing.
00:28:29
So you want to make darn sure, uh, you're very happy with what
00:28:34
that one thing is that you're going to leave people with
00:28:36
anyway.
00:28:36
That's, that's my quick segue into this topic.
00:28:40
What are your thoughts?
00:28:42
Speaker 1: No, that was awesome.
00:28:43
And in my UCLA class on personal branding, I begin with
00:28:46
defining brand and I go well, you know, here is the American
00:28:50
Marketing Association definition and here is what companies
00:28:54
would probably say.
00:28:55
And then I end with the same conclusion you have with the
00:28:59
Jeff Bezos quote, with the picture of it, right, and that
00:29:01
is just the ultimate way of thinking about it.
00:29:03
And so thank you for bringing that up, and I completely agree,
00:29:05
and I wrote about this in the Age of Influence At the end of
00:29:08
the day, influencers and they weren't called content creators
00:29:11
back then.
00:29:12
They are today.
00:29:12
Obviously, the end goal is really to have your own product.
00:29:15
So to see more of that coming is to me, you know, a no brainer
00:29:20
.
00:29:20
I think that every, every content creator, you know,
00:29:23
doesn't want to be relying on the algorithm.
00:29:24
They need to diversify their revenue stream, and if they
00:29:26
could create their own product, whatever that is, and if you can
00:29:29
create a physical product like you know, jay Baer with his
00:29:31
tequila is another great example All the better, yeah, great,
00:29:36
right, especially if it's part of what you're passionate about
00:29:38
as well.
00:29:38
So I wanted to ask you, talking on this talk of personality
00:29:41
growth, that growing now that we know what a brand is and I
00:29:45
think you sort of hinted at this of how do we grow a brand
00:29:49
through content and communities.
00:29:51
Skipped around it without getting direct to the point.
00:30:02
But if I'm a brand and there's social media, there's all these
00:30:03
things going on.
00:30:04
If I can just focus on content and communities, how do I do
00:30:06
that and why does that become a powerful strategy?
00:30:09
Speaker 3: Great question.
00:30:10
So let's start with the why and let's go into the how.
00:30:14
The why is pretty clear because , if you think about what all
00:30:18
these creators and influencers are doing that you've just
00:30:20
called out as well, neil they're looking at it from the other
00:30:23
side, to where we as business owners are.
00:30:25
They're like oh, I've got an audience, so now I need to find
00:30:28
a product.
00:30:28
Building a product in the business is darn hard, as we all
00:30:32
know, and, interestingly, you've seen a lot of those
00:30:34
influencers, typically in the YouTube space, where they've
00:30:37
tried to create D to C brands and it hasn't worked, right.
00:30:42
So it's not just because you have an audience isn't
00:30:44
necessarily a guarantee that it's going to work, because a
00:30:46
business is very hard to build, as we all know.
00:30:49
So what we need to think about as business owners, marketers or
00:30:53
people that have influence inside our organizations to help
00:30:57
steer the strategy, is we need to think about it from the other
00:31:01
side, you know.
00:31:01
We need to think about how do we turn our business also into a
00:31:06
media engine, right?
00:31:08
So that's going to require expertise and support beyond you
00:31:12
Now, of course.
00:31:14
So that's the why.
00:31:16
So why very clear?
00:31:17
Because, quite frankly, quite frankly right now, brands are
00:31:21
going to be strongest when they have a personality that leads
00:31:24
them.
00:31:24
For all the reasons that we know, brands don't perform very
00:31:27
strongly on like TikTok, which is still one of the fastest
00:31:30
growing platforms right now, and it's all about personalities.
00:31:33
And same with like.
00:31:34
How Insta are leaning into creators and all of the social
00:31:37
platforms are supporting creators and really creators is
00:31:41
just another way of just describing influencers, too, but
00:31:44
influencers of all different sizes, whether it's micro, nano,
00:31:49
macro or however you might describe how many followers in
00:31:51
that sphere of influence that they carry.
00:31:53
Now, how we do it getting into the tactical piece.
00:31:57
How we do it getting into the tactical piece this is something
00:32:03
that took me a long time to figure out, going through the
00:32:04
journey of content, cal, and it's still kind of messy and
00:32:06
manual and the kind of I'm sorry to say there is no quick win
00:32:10
here, and building this type of model in a business is like an
00:32:15
investment in your long-term future growth.
00:32:18
This isn't something you turn on, like Facebook ads right, you
00:32:22
can't just do it immediately, but think about this as a model
00:32:26
whereby number one is invest in your own personal brand.
00:32:30
Where are the things?
00:32:31
What are the things that your customers struggle with, their
00:32:34
problems, their challenges, and where's the overlapping Venn
00:32:38
towards what you serve?
00:32:39
What's your unique perspective on this matter?
00:32:42
How can you serve your customers' problems better
00:32:45
through content?
00:32:46
Pretty simple standard.
00:32:47
That's a pretty standard formula to look at this through.
00:32:51
So start with yourself and thinking about how you as an
00:32:54
individual can do that.
00:32:55
Point two is then is there anyone else in your organization
00:32:59
that you can get on board to help scale that?
00:33:02
And I sat down with the global head of social at PwC a couple
00:33:08
of weeks ago and what they've got?
00:33:10
350 employees.
00:33:12
Not all of us are blessed with an employee base that large, but
00:33:15
what was fascinating to me when I was listening to him is that
00:33:21
even a brand as strong as PwC, with a huge global LinkedIn
00:33:25
presence, they still rely on the impact of their employees to
00:33:31
drive growth on social.
00:33:32
And that's a business as strong as PwC, so it just goes to show
00:33:37
the impact of that.
00:33:38
So point one, as I said, think about the content that you can
00:33:42
create.
00:33:43
Think about focusing on one channel.
00:33:45
How can you serve your customers better?
00:33:47
How can you fill those problem gaps, those problem solution
00:33:50
gaps?
00:33:50
How do you bridge those for your customers?
00:33:52
And point two how can you scale that throughout the rest of
00:33:55
your employees?
00:33:55
Who else can you get on board with this?
00:33:57
Then point three is where it gets really interesting.
00:34:00
Is that?
00:34:00
Who else can you work with on this?
00:34:04
So point one I would start with look at your customer base and
00:34:08
look at anyone any of your customers that are influential,
00:34:12
right?
00:34:13
So we had quite a few people in early days of content cal that
00:34:16
that had influence, that started using our product.
00:34:18
That is a fantastic place to go to to speak to those
00:34:22
individuals, understand them and see what the value exchange is.
00:34:26
Now the thing that I learned that I well, it was a big lesson
00:34:31
for me is that not everyone wants to be paid to endorse a
00:34:34
product, and actually some people were offended when I said
00:34:37
, oh, like, thank you for supporting ContentCal, it's
00:34:40
great that you're a customer, et cetera, and yeah, it'd be
00:34:44
amazing if we could work together and we can happily pay,
00:34:46
et cetera.
00:34:46
They were kind of offended because they use this product.
00:34:50
They wouldn't necessarily want to be paid to talk about
00:34:53
something.
00:34:54
They actually genuinely advocate for it, so they want to
00:34:57
share it, advocate for it, so they want to share it.
00:35:02
So that then gave me my the kind of initial spark of like.
00:35:03
Okay, so scaling my own personal brand, working on my my
00:35:05
, the rest of my team members personal brands.
00:35:06
Now I'm looking at my customers and going what customers have
00:35:09
influence and let's start like an ambassador program.
00:35:13
So that worked.
00:35:14
That worked really well.
00:35:16
And then, point four, I'm looking at where are the
00:35:21
communities that our audience hang about in, and that's a
00:35:24
really easy thing.
00:35:24
It's quite manual but a very easy thing to figure out,
00:35:29
speaking to any one of your customers to understand how did
00:35:33
you hear about us?
00:35:34
And also, where are the places that you go to get like social
00:35:38
media advice, news recommendations, etc.
00:35:40
Because that was our space and very clearly that started to
00:35:45
come up.
00:35:46
Like a few Facebook groups started to come up, and that's
00:35:49
when I started spending a lot of time building relationships
00:35:52
with the people that ran these Facebook groups.
00:35:54
And this is where having a background in sales really helps
00:35:58
, because you're happy to get on a call with someone, you're
00:36:02
happy to do the cold outreach, because you're happy to put in
00:36:06
the hard yards and the reps that it takes to be ignored numerous
00:36:09
times and then be like, oh, just follow up.
00:36:11
See, if you've seen my message.
00:36:13
I've got a couple of ideas of things we could do together and
00:36:17
you know, not all of those land, but some of them did.
00:36:20
Where I was going to these group owners, these Facebook groups
00:36:24
in particular, with a suggestion of hey, I noticed that you've
00:36:29
created a lot of content for X topic.
00:36:31
You haven't done much on like.
00:36:33
My angle was analytics and social media how to truly
00:36:36
evaluate social media data to know whether something is good
00:36:40
or not.
00:36:40
So I was like well, I'm happy to create this content for you
00:36:44
and maybe this is a great place to start like some form of
00:36:47
partnership, and it's like a soft intro and you've got to
00:36:52
look at working with these creators in a really soft way.
00:36:54
Number one consume their content and understand the vibe
00:36:58
of the group.
00:36:59
Number two when you're ready to outreach, don't say, oh, could
00:37:03
you share this latest link or post for me, because no one
00:37:07
wants to do that, because it's not going to provide any value
00:37:09
for their audience.
00:37:10
Look at what you can do to help them provide value for the
00:37:14
audience, and when you start doing that, you're in the door.
00:37:16
And then, once you've got that, these people start to learn
00:37:20
about your product.
00:37:22
And we had so many different facebook groups that ranged from
00:37:26
like a couple of thousand members up to 120 000 members.
00:37:29
None of them like huge individually, huge scale by
00:37:32
themselves, but it creates a wonderful sphere of influence,
00:37:36
and this is the bit that a lot of people don't really think
00:37:39
about or look at social media negatively in this way.
00:37:42
Social media is one big flipping echo chamber and whilst
00:37:46
that seems bad when you think about it from like a Twitter
00:37:49
lens, it's wonderful for a brand because we all listen to the
00:37:55
people in our sphere of influence.
00:37:56
We spend so much time when we think about social media we're
00:37:59
like oh, what are we putting in our feed?
00:38:01
Like what we post in today, that doesn't really matter.
00:38:04
The only stuff that really matters is what other people are
00:38:08
saying about you.
00:38:09
So really, rather than putting stuff in your feed and I'm not
00:38:13
saying you don't need to do it, but like rather than just
00:38:16
obsessing over your own brand pages and trying to grow
00:38:18
followers, I would be investing my time in building
00:38:22
relationships with those individuals that have that
00:38:25
influence, building those relationships so they feel like
00:38:29
they actually.
00:38:29
You know they support our products.
00:38:31
Some people didn't want to be paid, some larger ones.
00:38:33
You know there was some financial exchange there too.
00:38:36
That's why it's got to be manual, to try and figure out
00:38:39
what is the right value exchange , and I think we did some deals
00:38:43
with you as well in the past.
00:38:45
Neil.
00:38:45
I remember reaching out to you a few times as you were
00:38:48
definitely on my hit list in the early days and with that, a
00:38:52
magical thing that happens, and sorry for the really long
00:38:55
narrative on this.
00:38:57
Speaker 1: Not at all, my friend .
00:38:58
Speaker 3: The magical thing that happens is that, even
00:39:00
though your follower growth doesn't look very impressive,
00:39:03
the one thing that does look very impressive is your share of
00:39:06
voice.
00:39:06
I probably spoke about this in the last, last session, because
00:39:09
I speak about it all the damn time, because it's still and, to
00:39:13
be honest, it's the hill I will die on at nil, until until
00:39:16
people that, um, that work in marketing, truly understand the
00:39:20
impact of this.
00:39:21
Social media allows us to light a fire under word of mouth and
00:39:25
have that amplified at scale.
00:39:27
And that doesn't happen just by one post going viral or trying
00:39:30
to figure out the latest Instagram algorithm hack or
00:39:33
whatever.
00:39:34
It's done, by thinking about strategically mapping out how
00:39:40
does a sphere of influence work in your industry and then
00:39:44
tracking that through a metric called share a voice.
00:39:46
And I religiously tracked us against Hootsuite and Buffer,
00:39:50
who are both formidable competition and you know
00:39:54
incredible marketers, and we obviously didn't have the
00:39:57
resource and the budgets to compete with them, but we got
00:40:00
some tactical chops and some tactical execution and that
00:40:03
worked really well.
00:40:04
So, recap, this is a very long how, but it's yeah, it's super
00:40:09
important.
00:40:10
Building own personal brand.
00:40:11
Point two building your employees.
00:40:13
Point three is about our customers that carry influence,
00:40:19
ambassador program.
00:40:20
Point four is about going to those communities that carry
00:40:24
that influence too.
00:40:25
And then point five is more macro level influences when
00:40:28
we're kind of paying for, you know, more kind of larger
00:40:31
campaign driven stuff.
00:40:32
But really point five never drove as much as we thought it
00:40:37
would.
00:40:37
A lot of the glory came in.
00:40:44
Speaker 1: Point four Hence me spending a lot of time talking
00:40:45
about it.
00:40:45
Yeah, no, that was a really fantastic overview and, like
00:40:48
with the age of influence, I think we've come to very similar
00:40:51
conclusions.
00:40:51
So in digital threads and I really haven't been publicizing
00:40:55
the name of the book, but I literally have this mapped out,
00:40:58
sort of there's an order of things, right, and I believe the
00:41:01
first order of things but I literally have this mapped out,
00:41:03
there's an order of things, and I believe the first order of
00:41:05
things is what I'm calling platform authentic content,
00:41:10
content that will perform well based on why people are on that
00:41:12
platform, which obviously is related to the algorithm as well
00:41:13
.
00:41:13
But I think we know what is the content that does the best
00:41:15
doesn't always generate the most traffic to our websites, right,
00:41:17
but I think that the hurdle is so high now that there are so
00:41:21
many good content creators and big brands that can invest a lot
00:41:26
of money into doing it For a lot of the smaller businesses, I
00:41:30
just you know, do you really have to be your own media?
00:41:32
Right, and you know I came to the same conclusion that no, you
00:41:35
know, you don't have to be your own media, because if you look
00:41:37
at social media, not as a place of 2 billion people to market to
00:41:41
, but a place of 2 million people to collaborate with.
00:41:44
It opens up your mind to all the possibilities that you
00:41:46
talked about and my natural stage is okay, platform
00:41:50
authentic content is going to be really, really hard to do.
00:41:52
The ROI may not be there, obviously.
00:41:55
If I was working with a business , I'd say how do we go?
00:41:57
100% UGC or user-generated content, and that's sort of the
00:42:00
conclusion I came to.
00:42:01
It's really about the user-generated content bringing
00:42:04
those high performers from that into a brand ambassador program.
00:42:06
And then, yes, the external influencers, but, as you said,
00:42:11
they may not be as most impactful because they don't
00:42:13
know, like and trust your brand to begin with for the most part,
00:42:15
and they're usually talking about a lot of different brands
00:42:17
anyway, so the message could be diluted.
00:42:19
So I think we got there in different ways, but very much
00:42:23
similar conclusion and I couldn't agree more with
00:42:25
everything you said.
00:42:26
So, based on that, now, content communities I just lean in the
00:42:32
term user-generated content because a lot of people
00:42:34
understand that term and what you may be talking about might
00:42:37
be a little bit greater than that when you talk about
00:42:39
communities and things of that sort and those collaborations,
00:42:41
but you talk about working with influencers and creators to
00:42:45
build a media engine for your business, so I'm wondering what,
00:42:50
in practical terms, what that would look like for anybody
00:42:53
that's listening or watching this video yeah, to be honest
00:42:56
with you, neil, it's it the way I describe that sounds more
00:43:00
grand than it is, to be honest, and it ultimately is what you
00:43:04
just described and I think that's.
00:43:08
Speaker 3: It's such A wonderfully refreshing thing to
00:43:11
hear when you think that people aren't on social media to be
00:43:15
sold to and when you say this is like 2 billion people to
00:43:19
collaborate with.
00:43:20
That's where the opportunity exists, absolutely.
00:43:22
And you know, it's when we start thinking that social media
00:43:26
isn't about us, it isn't a channel, it's just.
00:43:29
You know, of course social media can be used like that.
00:43:32
Yes, posting content to your feed is important.
00:43:34
Yes, all the stuff we know.
00:43:36
We don't need to cover those grounds, but we really need to
00:43:40
reframe it in our mind to know that it's about our audience,
00:43:45
not about us.
00:43:46
Social media is a business strategy, not a channel.
00:43:55
You know, we need, we need to think social first when it comes
00:43:56
to our business, because it touches everything.
00:43:57
It's about how people recommend us, it's how people find us,
00:44:01
it's it's how people come to know, like and trust us.
00:44:04
It's everything.
00:44:05
It's a sentiment, it's a brand, everything.
00:44:07
And it's how people share feedback with us too.
00:44:11
It's everything about you can build a whole business flywheel
00:44:14
around social, and that's why it's incredibly important.
00:44:17
Speaker 1: And I think, fast forward to today, where Google's
00:44:20
recent changes and the emergence of AI, search social
00:44:24
becomes that much more important as a point of discoverability
00:44:28
with TikTok and the era recommended media.
00:44:30
So I think, Andy, it's just become that much more important
00:44:34
over the last six months.
00:44:35
And I have another brother who is involved in a, let's just say
00:44:40
, like an Airbnb type operation and he was talking about, well,
00:44:43
you know, we're going to put together some blog content and
00:44:44
SEO and I'm like dude, that's not going to pay the bills.
00:44:48
But if you can bring in a few content creators, influencers,
00:44:54
to talk about travel in that region, invite them over for the
00:44:56
weekend, wine and dine them, get some content.
00:44:57
That's where the gold is today.
00:44:58
Right, and hopefully people listening I know you're nodding
00:45:01
are nodding as well, but yeah, it really is different times.
00:45:05
I don't think we would have talked about this five years ago
00:45:07
.
00:45:07
But then again, content creation before the emergence of
00:45:10
TikTok.
00:45:10
I think brands struggle when Instagram came out, Like how do
00:45:13
we visually represent ourselves if we're not a visual brand?
00:45:15
And I think brands now have gotten to the point where they
00:45:18
can do that.
00:45:18
But TikTok, once again, just raise that bar and short form
00:45:22
video is not an easy thing to crack.
00:45:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and like if I was going into TikTok
00:45:29
now as a brand, I would not be considering what we put in our
00:45:34
feed I'd have a profile to link back to, but really care about
00:45:37
what we put in it.
00:45:38
Yeah, I would care deeply about everything you just said.
00:45:41
What that example of your other brother with the airbnb type
00:45:44
thing and working with creators that that's the media engine for
00:45:47
your brand that I'm referring to.
00:45:48
And we need to think about it because you, you know, whilst we
00:45:53
could probably grow, we could buy followers and we can, you
00:45:56
know, pay for TikTok to promote our account and grow our account
00:46:00
to, you know, 10 followers, which is fine.
00:46:03
We could get that within three months and no doubt there's
00:46:06
still power in that, but we could 10x that very quickly by
00:46:11
finding the right people to work with and the right value
00:46:13
exchange.
00:46:14
And I keep on talking about this and this is the hard bit, and
00:46:18
there's no silver bullet for this and it's not.
00:46:20
This is a bit where it gets a bit messy and I think there's
00:46:23
still need for like products to come and try and solve some of
00:46:27
this, to solve some of this kind of creator and brand
00:46:31
collaboration, some of this kind of creator and brand
00:46:36
collaboration.
00:46:37
There are some products there, but it's still a bit kind of
00:46:38
marketplacey and it's still very messy of like how do I do the
00:46:40
right deal with someone?
00:46:40
How do I know what's right to collaborate with?
00:46:42
That's still basically.
00:46:44
What I'm saying is that brands need to make the space for
00:46:48
someone to spend time focusing on that, because it's every bit
00:46:51
as important as having a sales rep hitting the phones, because
00:46:55
that, ultimately, is how you drive the demand or create the
00:46:59
demand for a business.
00:47:00
That will result in sales.
00:47:02
Speaker 1: And to me, that's the sales part, because it's a
00:47:05
one-to-one, it doesn't scale right, but it also makes it fun
00:47:08
because you're working with people and you're creative and
00:47:11
you're developing relationships and mutual value.
00:47:13
Right, I mean, this is sales 101 to me.
00:47:14
But, yeah, and Andy, I think you should know, and I want
00:47:20
everyone else to know, what we're talking about here.
00:47:22
Right, I've had a number of people other authors read the
00:47:25
same manuscript and what they describe everything we talk
00:47:28
about.
00:47:28
They just describe it as modern marketing.
00:47:30
This is just how it's done today, and I think the bigger
00:47:33
brands, the savvy brands, know that, but 99% of the small,
00:47:36
medium-sized businesses and entrepreneurs don't know that.
00:47:38
So that's my mission to really democratize this, and I thank
00:47:41
you for joining me today, andy, because it validates that this
00:47:45
is the direction you need to go.
00:47:46
And there's no, you're not gonna hire an agency and pay
00:47:49
them like an SEO retainer for this type of work, and the work
00:47:52
is also deep to your brand, because, if we started with the
00:47:54
Jeff Bezos quote of what people say about you when you're not in
00:47:57
the room, you want to pick the creators you work with based on
00:48:00
their vibe, right, and I love that you had also mentioned the
00:48:03
vibe earlier and I think that's another important point.
00:48:05
I think there's a lot of rabbit holes we can go down here, but
00:48:08
I did want to get to.
00:48:09
You know, everybody listening.
00:48:11
It's like you know, andy, I've bought into this.
00:48:14
I want to transition the way we look at social, the way we look
00:48:20
at content, the way we look at communities.
00:48:21
How do I establish the operating model to bring this to
00:48:23
life, and what would your advice be?
00:48:26
Speaker 3: Nice.
00:48:26
So my first port of call I can only give my experience.
00:48:32
So I tend to not try and give too much advice, because my
00:48:35
experience right, because all business contexts are very, very
00:48:38
different, but in my experience one of the the highest leverage
00:48:42
things that that we did early on, which I recommend based on
00:48:47
the results.
00:48:48
So we we started a webinar series early on, so it doesn't
00:48:52
sound particularly innovative, but the really interesting thing
00:48:56
that happened with it is that we spent a lot of time reaching
00:48:59
out to people that were very known and respected in the in
00:49:05
social media management, not necessarily like influencers,
00:49:07
and we kind of went down that track later on, which didn't
00:49:11
yield as as well as we hoped, which I alluded to earlier but
00:49:15
actually we spent time reaching out to like the people that were
00:49:18
running socials from brands that we really respect.
00:49:21
People really respect it.
00:49:22
So a lot of them in the uk brands that you might not know,
00:49:25
so monzo bank in the in really really important bank in the uk,
00:49:29
very fast growing and innocent drinks which like the champions
00:49:33
of social and UK brand again, but these brands in our market
00:49:38
because we're targeting the UK.
00:49:39
They are beloved by social media people worldwide, but
00:49:44
particularly in the UK as well.
00:49:46
They weren't customers.
00:49:47
We didn't have a product to serve those folk because they
00:49:51
were using Sprout or Sprinklerler the products that
00:49:54
are, like you know, next level.
00:49:56
We weren't at that, but the fascinating thing that happens,
00:49:59
because when we invited them on a webinar, we talk strategy with
00:50:01
them.
00:50:02
We, you know, have this kind of level of discussion.
00:50:05
We got known as, like the social media strategy people.
00:50:08
We got known as the people that delivered best practice around
00:50:12
this.
00:50:12
This is what we became known for and because we had such
00:50:17
large brands on with us, it gave us a halo effect like, all
00:50:21
right, they're working with those types of organizations.
00:50:24
Now we weren't.
00:50:25
We weren't, not once did we say that we were.
00:50:27
But it becomes associated and this is the interesting thing
00:50:30
that happens.
00:50:31
So, like we ended up having by two years worth of doing this
00:50:35
and consistency pays off.
00:50:36
This is not a quick win thing.
00:50:37
We did this for two years and every week we were having one
00:50:41
and a half thousand people join these webinars and wow, yeah, it
00:50:46
was.
00:50:46
It just became such a thing.
00:50:49
And all the time we just committed to that journey of
00:50:53
knowing that social media is hard.
00:50:54
Building social strategies is very hard, all of those user
00:51:00
pains we lived because we were social people.
00:51:01
It's very easy to then to speak the language of the people
00:51:04
because we have true user empathy.
00:51:05
We've walked a mile in their shoes, and that really is the
00:51:10
start of that operating model.
00:51:11
You have to truly, truly understand and obsess about your
00:51:16
customer problems and pains, and marketers don't do this
00:51:19
anywhere near as much as they should do, and obviously I know
00:51:22
this as a founder.
00:51:23
I speak to customers all the time multiple customers a day,
00:51:28
continually because that's the only way you can truly
00:51:31
understand how to market to people, when you truly
00:51:34
understand them and their problems and their pains.
00:51:36
It's only through that lens of true user empathy do you then
00:51:40
build an operating model around.
00:51:41
Ok, here's a bunch of things that unanimously, people hate
00:51:46
and struggle with.
00:51:47
How do we try and plug that gap ?
00:51:49
And whilst we can't plug it, we can try and plug it through our
00:51:53
product, but that takes a long time to develop features etc.
00:51:56
But you know we have a product backlog and a roadmap to try and
00:51:58
solve that.
00:51:59
But in the short term, what can we do?
00:52:01
What can we do to plug that gap ?
00:52:02
Through content, and that's where we're big.
00:52:04
On the webinars, we did a podcast as well, which wasn't as
00:52:07
big as the webinars.
00:52:08
Webinars just became our thing and, because we're a startup,
00:52:14
scale up, had maybe 40 employees at that point.
00:52:16
You've still got a major on one thing.
00:52:18
So we majored on those webinars and also a major on one thing,
00:52:22
major on two and the community driven stuff that we were
00:52:26
talking about.
00:52:27
But all of that.
00:52:28
So at the top level, we had a wonderful halo effect of these
00:52:31
big hitting webinars with people that were hugely respected in
00:52:34
the space, which again gave a halo effect to the brand, and
00:52:37
that what fell off, that was a whole bunch of leads and new
00:52:41
business and it also became a series and because it's a series
00:52:45
, it means you can invite the same 1500 people from the last
00:52:48
one and get another 1500 people on.
00:52:50
So it just we ended up with a database of about 150 people
00:52:55
that have attended our sessions over the two years.
00:52:58
So it became an incredible, just basically became a media
00:53:00
company.
00:53:01
Like had that newsletter, those webinars just became a thing and
00:53:05
that could have been a business in its own right, but really it
00:53:08
was the brand that propelled us forward, and I'll talk about
00:53:12
the net result of that in a second.
00:53:13
So that was like the core operating model.
00:53:16
That was the thing that sat at the middle and we also used
00:53:19
getting a bit tactical.
00:53:20
We used HubSpot extensively so we could track leads generated
00:53:25
through webinars too.
00:53:26
So we had some fancy stuff going on which I won't get into
00:53:29
now, but it made like attribution real.
00:53:32
I also held back commissions from sales folk that didn't have
00:53:35
their lead source correctly input into HubSpot.
00:53:38
So I was like I'm absolutely militant on attribution so we
00:53:45
could see.
00:53:47
So that also then meant that we could see the impact on the
00:53:51
sales funnel, because our typical sales cycle was
00:53:53
somewhere between 45 to 90 days for people that we would want
00:53:56
win through, like Facebook ads or PPC on Google, whereas the
00:54:01
sales cycle was under 14 days for the people that found us
00:54:04
through content.
00:54:05
And if that doesn't underpin the impact of brand on business,
00:54:08
I don't know what flipping does .
00:54:10
So, yeah, that was a hugely important thing to demonstrate
00:54:15
to our investors and it really helps when because I ran growth
00:54:20
for Content Cal it really helps when someone is both marketing
00:54:23
and sales-minded to really bridge the gap between the two
00:54:27
to go.
00:54:27
Brand is super important.
00:54:29
Marketing isn't just about lead gen, but we need to balance
00:54:33
that.
00:54:33
How do we do balance that?
00:54:34
How do we do brand, how do we build brand while still
00:54:37
acquiring leads, and how to improve the correlation between
00:54:40
the two, and that was a really important thing.
00:54:42
And the net result to close off this, this story, is that we won
00:54:46
I've told the story a few times , so we won the largest rfp that
00:54:51
we've won at content cal.
00:54:52
It wasn't nine figures like your deal, six figures, nearly
00:54:55
seven like your deal, neil, but it was big for us.
00:54:59
And after we won it and after I was comfortable that we'd got
00:55:03
the contract signed, I asked the guy who made the decision.
00:55:06
I was like why did you choose us?
00:55:07
You used Hootsuite and I knew who else was in the running, so
00:55:12
they're very good products.
00:55:13
And his answer was yeah, they are good products and in some
00:55:18
areas they did beat you from a scoring perspective.
00:55:21
There's a couple of features that we're really going to miss
00:55:24
by moving to you, but the truth is, andy, he's like I bought
00:55:29
this because I believe in you guys and I was like what do you
00:55:33
mean?
00:55:33
And he goes.
00:55:33
I think my team will be better off from using you.
00:55:34
I believe in you guys and I was like what do you mean and he
00:55:36
goes.
00:55:36
I think my team will be better off from using you.
00:55:37
I believe in the journey that you're on and I also believe
00:55:41
that our team will get better by using Content Cow, thanks to
00:55:45
everything else that you do around the business, and I was
00:55:47
like I'm done.
00:55:50
Speaker 1: I'm done, Mic drop yeah that is everything.
00:55:54
Speaker 3: It still gives me shivers down my spine now
00:55:56
because it's like that moment where you're, like you, just
00:55:59
validated everything that I have come to believe and know, and
00:56:06
it's also been incredibly painful over the years to
00:56:08
explain this type of operating model to like investors or other
00:56:13
people that join the business who have come from more kind of
00:56:16
performance marketing backgrounds, where you, like you
00:56:18
know, put out ads ppc, facebook ads and just drive performance
00:56:23
and there's an element of that and that's.
00:56:24
There's still a proportion.
00:56:25
That's that's useful, but that really should be 25, probably a
00:56:30
bit less, of your efforts, whereas the efforts really need
00:56:34
to be invested very heavily into demand gen.
00:56:36
And when we talk about demand gen more specifically, it's all
00:56:40
about that personality driven growth through our own personal
00:56:44
brands as an individual, through our employees, through our
00:56:47
customers, through, as advocates , ugc and also through creators
00:56:52
and communities.
00:56:52
So that's it.
00:56:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, andy, I truly think you have another
00:56:56
book in you with just what we talked about today, cause I love
00:56:58
that third point about talking about the customer, and I'm
00:57:02
going to share with you two stories here, if I may, about
00:57:06
the customer, of understanding your customer.
00:57:08
So my daughter went to a private high school here in
00:57:12
Irvine, california, a Lutheran high school, and it's named
00:57:16
after someone, and I'm like I wonder who this person is that
00:57:19
donated money to create this amazing educational institution.
00:57:22
And it turns out the gentleman's name is John Green.
00:57:24
John was the founder of a recreational vehicle company RV
00:57:29
as they're known here called Fleetwood, which if you're into
00:57:32
RV, you probably know the name.
00:57:33
Speaker 2: I've heard of it.
00:57:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
00:57:35
Speaker 1: And reading about his story, andy and I just found a
00:57:38
real quick.
00:57:39
He passed away in 2007.
00:57:41
But at the time, the RV industry was still in its
00:57:44
infancy, with much room for innovation and improvement.
00:57:46
John Cream was the man to do it , building Fleetwood and one of
00:57:49
the largest, most successful manufacturers in the world,
00:57:51
forever down to earth, even as the CEO.
00:57:53
He would attend rallies and, while there, thought nothing of
00:57:57
pulling out his toolbox and making a repair for a customer.
00:58:00
And this is the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company.
00:58:03
And this is not only getting to know your customer, but
00:58:06
building.
00:58:07
That is a personality led brand when I mean whatever we say
00:58:10
about Elon Musk.
00:58:10
That is a personality led brand when I see his fanboys on X
00:58:16
talking about Tesla.
00:58:18
he has built that using the same concept that you're talking
00:58:20
about there.
00:58:20
So I love that.
00:58:22
But it's also once you do that.
00:58:23
It also feeds into that content creation, because now, imagine
00:58:28
if John Kareem was still alive today, I'm sure there'd be some
00:58:32
RV influencer taking short form videos of, like, the CEO fixing
00:58:35
his RV right.
00:58:36
It builds that media engine that you talk about and it also
00:58:40
helps you cement those.
00:58:42
I mean, once you understand your customer, that is the heart
00:58:45
of the personality of that brand.
00:58:46
As you said, if it's all about what people say about you when
00:58:49
you're not in the room, you need to know that and you're not
00:58:51
going to know that unless you talk to your customer and you
00:58:53
know your customer.
00:58:54
So that was awesome, I'm sure, andy, when you were in sales, we
00:58:58
were always trying to bring executives to our customers to
00:59:01
understand their pain points and if our whatever we were selling
00:59:05
, if it fixed it or maybe there were new business opportunities.
00:59:08
So, yeah, that challenge has not gone away.
00:59:10
In fact, it's probably gotten harder because there's so much
00:59:12
more remote work going on, more inside sales, less actual,
00:59:16
direct, you know, person-to-person interaction
00:59:19
with customers.
00:59:19
So a great reminder, a great way to end the conversation.
00:59:23
There was so much gold in today's conversation and I love
00:59:27
the direction you're taking it.
00:59:28
You know really offering a lot to everybody who listened.
00:59:31
I do hope you write that book, andy.
00:59:33
Because I do hope you write that book, andy, because I do
00:59:34
think you have a part one, part two, part three right there.
00:59:36
Oh, nice Well.
00:59:38
Speaker 3: I feel inspired actually after this conversation
00:59:40
, so maybe I'll get pens and paper after this.
00:59:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I'd love to tap into your amazing mind once
00:59:45
I'm further along in my book to interview you and to get your
00:59:49
ideas for that.
00:59:49
But, andy, this has been awesome, so tell us.
00:59:52
Obviously, for those that have been following Adobe Express,
00:59:56
you just launched your mobile app, so congratulations on that.
00:59:59
That is a huge milestone.
01:00:01
What is next for Andy, what is next for Adobe Express and what
01:00:06
is next for personality-led growth?
01:00:08
Let's end on those notes.
01:00:10
Speaker 3: Cool, so, yeah, do check out Adobe Express notes.
01:00:16
Cool, so, yeah, do check out adobe express.
01:00:17
Yes, it's getting a really becoming a very strong tool for
01:00:18
both building your brand, both personally and within a, within
01:00:21
a team and an organization.
01:00:22
So a lot of efforts going into that right now.
01:00:25
So, um, and so much is available for free as well.
01:00:28
So, you know, good technology has never been so accessible,
01:00:31
especially for, like, smes, etc.
01:00:33
Speaker 1: So it's amazing what you can do in Adobe Express in
01:00:36
an app and, by the way, there's a more famous company out there
01:00:40
but Adobe Express was really built with the current social
01:00:44
media user in mind.
01:00:45
It's a very, very different concept, very, very different
01:00:47
perspective.
01:00:47
I find it just a heck of a lot easier to use, get going and get
01:00:52
something out the door.
01:00:52
So if you haven't tried it once again, I urge you to.
01:00:56
So I'll let you keep going, Andy.
01:01:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, all good, yeah, Thanks.
01:01:03
Thanks for the support, neil.
01:01:04
I appreciate it.
01:01:04
And what's next for me?
01:01:05
Well, I'll continue working on the product, so always open to
01:01:07
hearing how it could improve.
01:01:09
And other than that, I've started started another podcast
01:01:13
you can find it on spotify on the social 3.0, same as the.
01:01:17
The book nice and that's it's focused on social for b2b is
01:01:22
really as you know, given the last two conversations that that
01:01:25
we've had on your podcast, I'm pretty one-track minded as it
01:01:28
relates to growing businesses on social, and it's lovely to hear
01:01:32
other people's perspectives and challenges and opportunities
01:01:36
they're finding, so finding a lot of joy in getting back on
01:01:39
podcasting and just having those long, in-depth, meaningful
01:01:43
conversations, but just recording it at the same time,
01:01:45
which is which is great.
01:01:47
I think that's it, to be honest , and the only thing else it's
01:01:50
kind of maybe this opportunity for you and I to collaborate
01:01:53
potentially.
01:01:53
You know you're a prolific book writer.
01:01:55
You know you said I should write a book.
01:01:57
Hey, why don't we co-author one ?
01:01:58
Speaker 1: so maybe that's an idea we can go away and riff on,
01:02:01
but that's a very interesting idea and I love you know I I
01:02:05
play drums when I lived in japan and I often use the word riff,
01:02:08
and I find these podcast episodes when you interview
01:02:11
someone like yourself, an innovator, and where you feel
01:02:15
truly aligned.
01:02:16
It is like you're in a studio riffing with each other.
01:02:18
You don't have a song in mind, but you start with drum and bass
01:02:21
and everybody comes in and it's a really fantastic term.
01:02:24
So, yeah, we should definitely have a separate conversation
01:02:26
about that.
01:02:27
That would be fun.
01:02:27
But truly, Andy, thank you for your contributions.
01:02:32
Even while working at Adobe, you still have your own original
01:02:36
concepts and you're adding so much value as an innovator to
01:02:39
the field.
01:02:40
So I thank you for that and I can't wait to see where things
01:02:43
go.
01:02:43
And yeah, I have like four or five different book ideas.
01:02:47
It's funny because once you get creative and you get in the
01:02:50
groove, it's like, wow, I can do this and this and this and I
01:02:52
urge anybody listening.
01:02:55
One of the favorite bands I listened to growing up was an
01:02:57
indie punk band called the Minutemen, who I doubt you've
01:02:59
ever heard of, but they would often end their shows saying
01:03:03
write your own book, write your own song, start a band, be
01:03:06
creative, go create and contribute in your own way to
01:03:08
the world.
01:03:09
So that's what I want to offer you.
01:03:11
My listener to do the same thing, obviously.
01:03:13
So that's what I want to offer you, my listener, to do the same
01:03:14
thing.
01:03:14
Obviously, create in aligning with building this
01:03:16
personality-led growth that we talked about, but also, just
01:03:19
once you turn on those creative juices, it can help you in so
01:03:22
many different ways, as I'm sure Andy, you found and I found as
01:03:24
well.
01:03:24
So thank you so much, and I assume we can send people to
01:03:26
andylambertcom if they want to find out more about you and
01:03:29
engage with you as well.
01:03:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
01:03:32
Speaker 1: Awesome.
01:03:32
Thank you so much, andy, thanks so much Neil, Great to see you
01:03:39
All right.
01:03:39
I think talking with Andy on my podcast is going to become an
01:03:41
annual event because we see things so similarly.
01:03:43
But Andy is just this wealth of knowledge and really strategic
01:03:48
advice that I think we can all learn from and we should all be
01:03:51
implementing.
01:03:52
We can all learn from and we should all be implementing.
01:03:55
All righty well, we are now entering Q4 of 2024.
01:03:58
And, as I told my digital first group coaching community in my
01:04:01
monthly email providing the schedule for our Zoom meetups,
01:04:06
it's here the final quarter of 2024.
01:04:07
What have you accomplished so far this year?
01:04:10
What do you want to accomplish before year end?
01:04:13
And I want to throw those questions at you as well.
01:04:16
For me, publishing two books over the course of two weeks is
01:04:19
about forcing myself to get output into the market.
01:04:22
Without product, we can't build our company.
01:04:24
Without product, we can't grow.
01:04:26
Without product, we can't serve .
01:04:28
It doesn't have to be a book, but it should be something that
01:04:30
people can pay you for the value you provide, Something to think
01:04:33
about for those still in the development phase of products
01:04:36
and or services and I say this because a lot of my members of
01:04:42
my community are digital entrepreneurs that are still
01:04:43
developing products and services or they want to develop new
01:04:45
products and services.
01:04:45
The end of the year is also about finding different and
01:04:48
potentially better ways of doing things so that we can do more
01:04:51
with less time.
01:04:52
And I go on in how.
01:04:55
There's something very specific that I'm doing with the group
01:04:58
to increase my efficiency, giving a little case study.
01:05:01
But hey, if you are a entrepreneur or looking to
01:05:07
launch a new product, a new service, you should check out my
01:05:11
group coaching mastermind community, Digital First.
01:05:13
You should check out my group coaching mastermind community,
01:05:16
Digital First.
01:05:16
We meet four times a month on Zoom.
01:05:21
We're all supportive of each other.
01:05:21
We have a number of experts in digital marketing in the group,
01:05:23
which is why I often call it a mastermind community, although
01:05:25
it started as a group coaching community and I would love to
01:05:27
welcome you as well we are a very, very tight knit community.
01:05:31
We max out at 20.
01:05:32
So everybody always has enough time to get all their questions
01:05:36
asked on a weekly basis, and we also have a private Facebook
01:05:39
group.
01:05:39
So go if you're interested, go to neilschafercom, slash
01:05:42
membership, check it out, and if you have any questions, I would
01:05:45
love to hear from you.
01:05:46
Well, that is it for another episode of this your digital
01:05:50
marketing coach podcast.
01:05:50
This is your digital marketing coach, Neil Schafer, signing off
01:05:51
.
01:05:51
You've been listening to your digital marketing coach podcast.
01:05:53
This is your digital marketing coach, Neil Schaefer, signing
01:05:54
off.
01:05:55
Speaker 2: You've been listening to your digital marketing coach
01:05:58
.
01:05:58
Questions, comments, requests, links.
01:06:02
Go to podcastneilschafercom Get the show notes to this and 200
01:06:07
plus podcast episodes, and neilschafercom to tap in to the
01:06:12
400 plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your
01:06:16
business.
01:06:17
While you're there, check out Neil's digital first group
01:06:20
coaching membership community If you or your business needs a
01:06:24
little helping hand.
01:06:25
See you next time on your digital marketing coach.
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