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Feb. 10, 2022

How Influencer Marketing Will Change in 2022 [P.J. Leimgruber Interview]

How Influencer Marketing Will Change in 2022 [P.J. Leimgruber Interview]

Today I have a special guest who is also an influencer marketing expert discussing the past and future trends of influencer marketing. P.J. Leimgruber is the founder of one of the leading influencer marketing platforms, NeoReach, and he most recently founded the Clash App.

He developed this new app because he feels that the existing brand deal system that is prominent in influencer marketing is broken. That's why PJ recently joined forces with former Vine sensation, Brendon McNerney, to launch Clash, a short-form video app with built-in creator monetization tools, to solve the problem, and provide the infrastructure necessary to create a more sustainable brand-deal ecosystem.

Some of the things we discussed include:

  • How social media user behavior is changing going into 2022, and why that's a good thing (creating more authentic interactions, building off of connections to niche audiences and devoted fanbases)
  • How brands can leverage "microtransactions" and tools like Clash drops to connect with target audiences
  • What changes we will see in 2022 in influencer marketing trends

Key Highlights

[02:08] Introduction of Podcast Guest, P.J. Leimgruber

[04:28] P.J's Journey To Founding Neoreach and Digital Marketing

[07:49] Using Influencers Instead Of Traditional Ads

[10:28] The Difference of Social Media Now Compared Before

[12:49] Creating More Authentic Interactions

[13:53] Why Brand-Deal Relationships Are Broken Today

[15:49] The Problem With How Influencers Are Treated

[16:51] What Are Microtransactions And How Brands Can Leverage Them

[19:07] What Clash App Does

[25:25] The Shift For Influencer Marketing Next Year

[28:48] Connect With PJ

Notable Quotes

  • It doesn't necessarily need to be in the sense of scale, in terms of millions of followers, you know, we're seeing these small micro creators have had great success doing what they love. And that's encouraging to see.
  • I think that creators now more than before, really understanding that distinction, and really think about how do they cultivate those relationships with those top fans.
  •  I encourage the folks that are on the brand side, to really rethink their influencer strategy and that lens and think less about the performance metrics and the views and the numbers and really think about the creation of the fostering a connection between the brand and the creator, the same way that the craters foster that connection with their fans.
  • What we want to start thinking is not what the creators think about is how do I break away from needing to fit the mold of what the brands are looking for, into saying that I just want to be me, and I want to build relationships with my fans, I want to build my digital community, I want to connect with my ride or die fans.

Guest Links:

Learn More:

Transcript

Neal Schaffer:

social media user behavior has changed drastically since Coronavirus as we are now in 2022. What does that mean for the influencer marketing landscape? Stay tuned and find out on this next episode of The your digital marketing coach podcast digital social media content influencer marketing, blogging, podcasting, blogging, tick tocking, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, SEO, SEM, PPC, email marketing, who there's a lot to cover, whether you're a marketing professional entrepreneur, or business owner, you need someone you can rely on for expert advice. Good thing you've got Neil, on your side, because Neal Schaffer is your digital digital marketing marketing coach, helping you grow your business with digital first marketing one episode at a time. This is your digital marketing coach. And this is Neal Schaffer. Hey, everybody, a happy morning, afternoon, evening to wherever you are in the world. This is Neal Schaffer and I am your digital marketing coach. And you are listening to episode number 247. Today, we are going to go a little bit deeper on influencer marketing. As you know, this podcast has actually been aligned with books that are published starting with a maximize your social podcast. Following up it became the maximize your social influence podcast with the publication of the age of influence. And now, obviously your digital marketing coach podcast I'm looking forward to my fifth book Digital First, which is still in production. Stay tuned. But this episode is really getting back to those influencer marketing roots. And I know from looking at the stats that a lot of you subscribe to this podcast to hear that information. So I want to make sure that regularly, I'm providing you that content. And I'm really excited today because I have a very, very special guest that I am going to be interviewing. Today's guest is PJ lime Gruber. Now, PJ is actually the founder of one of the top influencer marketing platforms that I actually featured in the age of influence called Neo reach. And when you hear his story of how he started that company, how he was doing everything in digital marketing, but then he realized that when he reached out to content creators and social media influencers, the ROI was just 10x better than any other channel that he was using. So that's why he actually built Neil reach out of that realization. And I think when you hear his story, you're gonna better understand just that inherent value that influencer marketing has when it is done right. So we're gonna talk a lot about the direction influencer marketing is headed this year. And PJ also has a new project. He is also co founder of the short form video app with built in monetization features called Clash. I always want to say the classics. I'm a huge fan of them, but it's just called Clash. But anyway, I think you'll find the conversation really, really interesting. We cover all the latest trends in social media, and how it translates into how influencer marketing will change this year and beyond. So without further ado, here's my interview with the one and only PJ lime Gruber. You're listening to your digital marketing coach, this is Neal Schaffer. PJ, welcome to the your digital marketing coach podcast.

P.J. Leimgruber:

Thanks for having me, Neil. Excited to be here. Yeah, so

Neal Schaffer:

PJ, you probably haven't heard about me, but I had actually heard about you with your former company that you're wanting to reach. In fact, in my book, The Age of influence people obviously listening can't see the video near reach was actually listed as one of the top 10 influence discovery tools. So it's really cool to be able to have a chance to talk to you knowing that you're one of the leaders in the influencer marketing industry. And there's really no better person to talk to about how influencer marketing is gonna change in 2022. I want to take a step back though, and really understand how did you near reach an influencer marketing? How did you get started in all this? I mean, let's say you just graduated high school. So just just trying to figure out that background how you got into the space?

P.J. Leimgruber:

Yes. So you know, it's a really funny story, because that was not a career path that I intended to go down. I was actually studying molecular microbiology at the University of Central Florida in in my hometown of Orlando, Florida. And my goal at the time was to go on and to become a go to med school and go on and become a doctor. And I did this fun little side project over the summer of my before my senior year of college, and I toured the country and I was a festival vendor and I was selling products. At electronic dance music festivals, this is probably about 2011. Okay, this is quite some time ago. And we we had this product that we sold that was a neon, it's a neon color trucker hat and had words and phrases sort of on it, they were really big and they were kind of funny and goofy. And what I didn't realize is they had become very popular. So we had gone to about 30 different cities over the course of a summer. And at that time, all these all these different events had event photographers and they were posting 1000s of pictures of the events and people were tagging themselves, but there was no digital footprint for these hats. So at the time, I think Instagram was was just coming around I don't even know I don't think it was owned by Facebook yet. Twitter was a prominent social network YouTube and blogs were around but it was it was very nascent time and influencer and creator marketing. So we ended up building an E commerce site that was solely centered around these hats. It's not up anymore, it was called rage hats at the time. And I spent the greater part of that year learning everything there is to know about all things digital marketing. So I taught myself SEO, I taught myself you know, web design, social media management, I was using like Vertical Response for email marketing campaigns. And I was doing this all with my younger brother Jesse, who ended up CO founding new reach with and I'll get to that that segue the story. And but it was a really, it was a really fun time, I had a lot of negativity to entrepreneurship, I had no prerequisite I didn't think it was something I was gonna do long term, but it ended up that the rage half was kind of a flash in the pan, it got really popular we didn't we sold a ton of hats in a very short amount of time. And then it's, you know, naturally started to fizzle away. And what I learned through that time is that social media and 90 of the influences that just word of mouth marketing on so you know, and the power of SEO and the power of inbound marketing, all these things were extraordinarily powerful. And I got so into it that I just wanted to keep doing it. So after I graduated, I ended up founding a small digital marketing consultancy called rank executives. Also no longer around but and what I did at this time was I spent about a year doing small business marketing consulting. So like you're fresh out of college consultants stuff I was doing SEO campaigns, content marketing, right? A lot of blog writing, influencer outreach guest posting, you could still link build in those days. So we were doing link building, learning, Majestic SEO, SEM rush and sort of really sinking my teeth into all things, organic inbound digital marketing, I was a big fan of like Rand Fishkin and Moz. And those days, went to a bunch of SEO conferences, and I was just such a, I was just like a kid in a candy store, taking soaking in all this knowledge. And I really, really loved it, it was a really great fun time in my life. In about 2013, I was thinking about the arbitrage that existed with using influencers versus like traditional ad buy, but gotten into a lot of like CPM, you know, type ad buying, you know, Google that Google ad networks that type those types of things. And I had experimented with working with some creators and having like them share links, and share content and amplify posts on Twitter, and some like sponsored blog posts from like some some bigger, more established blogs, and working with a few youtubers on like just a case by case basis for some of my clients. And at this particular time, the results were like 10 to 20x better than I could get anywhere else. There was just, there was no tools for this, I think Buzzsumo was around and cloud there was some nascent tools that were around but nothing that really facilitated the what ended up being the industry of influencer marketing. And I was hooked. I thought that this was going to be the next wave of like influencer marketing as brands are not tapping into this yet. More and more creators are being minted day over day with the emergence of this is when you Instagram started to really take off vine was coming around. And I just, I thought this is this, this is the place I want to be. So in 2013 My Brother Jesse lamb Gruber was a student at Stanford at the time, and I had moved out to the Bay Area to sort of work remotely with him while he was in school. And we decided to venture off of the traditional digital marketing consulting and get into influencer marketing by itself and that's when Neary was founded. So we actually started working on it in 2013, we went through a business accelerator called Alchemist. And we really incorporated the company got rolling in 2014. And that had really that's when I really started working very closely in the space case of influencer marketing.

Neal Schaffer:

And the rest is history. Right? Obviously very successful. Now. I know that since then you've you've launched another company. We're going to talk about that shortly. But let's talk a little bit deeper about influence marketing from those early days to today. Obviously, it's really changed and I think that you'd agree that not just Coronavirus has Change things but the emergence of Tik Tok and the popularity of short form video, what have you going into 2022? You can say that social media and social media user behavior is just completely different than it was just a year or two ago. I'd like to dig deeper, deeper into that, and what you see, because the foundation of influencer marketing, obviously, his social media, and how people use it, how people create content and engage with content creators, how have things changed? Why have they, why have things changed? And what is social media looking like going into 2022.

P.J. Leimgruber:

So I think the number one thing that's different now versus even a few years ago, is the rate at which new creators getting into and that's something that tick tock does very, very well, we're seeing people hop on the app, create content, they hit that they hit that algorithm, they hit that viral wave, and they wake up one day with 10,000 50,000 500,000 a million followers. And these these weren't people that were career content creators. Previously, if you look at like the, I think the first channel that really minted true creators was YouTube, right. And that's a lot of work for a creator, there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into it. Most YouTubers have a team filming long form videos is expensive, and it's cumbersome. And now you know, it kind of happened flash in the pan with vine and really reinforced by tick tock, you have this sort of new emergence of the short form Gen Z creator that can just pull out their phone and shoot content and with little to no editing, develop and engage an audience. And the rate of that happening is just accelerating rapidly 2021 to 2022.

Neal Schaffer:

And would you say that, not only is it just easy for non career content creators to create this really compelling content, but that people now once they see it are getting hooked on it.

P.J. Leimgruber:

Absolutely. And I think we've really been able to explore and crawl deep into the corners of the internet, kind of like how there's a subreddit, for every interest in every topic, there's now creators that talk about and find every topic, and it's less about sort of the big brand name, style, you know, popular creator, and it's more into the niche creator, these you know, we see these small creators with, you know, 20 30,000 followers that just have insane rockin engagement, because they found, you know, a little corner of the web or a little corner of Pinterest, and they found it available to build and cultivate their community, and they're finding success. And it's not doesn't necessarily need to be in the sense of scale, in terms of millions of followers, you know, we're seeing these small micro creators have had great success doing what they love. And that's, that's encouraging to see.

Neal Schaffer:

So one thing you also mentioned before we hit the record button was this notion of creating more authentic interactions. In social media, these these content creators are doing in a way that a few years ago, when you looked at those big, you know, Instagram influencers, there seemed to be like this distance with the crater that these new craters that you know, don't have, can

P.J. Leimgruber:

you comment about that? I think what we're seeing is the emergence of like, the the real rider died, fans, and I think creators previously, maybe weren't as cognizant of that data as they are now. Whereas, you know, the behavior was very much, you know, how do I, how do I blow up? How do I get more followers? How do we get more and more popular, and I think creators are still thinking about it that way. But I think that now, in my conversation with creators, it's very much more conversation centered around who are these people that not only follow me on my main platform, follow me on my other platform that watch and comment on every day that if I were to post an event somewhere, would actually come out and show up and support me. And I think that creators now more than before, really understanding that distinction, and really thinking about how do they cultivate those relationships with those top fans for short?

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So one of the things that you had mentioned earlier was that the existing brand deal system is broken. So with the way that brands engage with influencers, and I mean, Neil reach was was part of that, but can you sort of go over sort of this history of brand, deal relationships and why it's broken today.

P.J. Leimgruber:

So brands typically, are used to by media, right? And and the folks that buy influencer marketing, it could be it could be a number of departments, it may be a PR, it could be a social team, it could be a digital performance marketing team, but brands are typically the unlock for them is is CPM. And brands are used to buying media. And so when they when they look to work with creators, by and large, there's, there's an interest in well, what's this? What's the reach? How much am I paying? And what am I going to get back? And it's sort of a it's sort of a trap in a way of measurement. Brands are also very tend to be very brand conscious. And that's okay, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but they tend to really look through and scrub influencers content, they want to check for brand safety, they want to make sure that you know, the creator, the creator hasn't said something off kilter in a post in the past. And I think there's just a lot of there's a lot of factors that sort of end up leaving out precluding a lot of creators and sort of pushing it toward the top where we're seeing the top sort of one to two percent creators that are very brand friendly and very popular, they sort of get a lot of the brand deals, were some of the smaller micro creators or even the even the ones that, you know, despite our best efforts of showing them how engaged and how awesome their followers are, there's just not an appetite. You know, from that for brands, generally speaking, and I'm talking about the very top right, we see like a lot of startup brands, and a lot of smaller brands are really embracing building relationships with creators early and it's not a problem that's endemic to the whole space. It's just sort of at the very top line where a lot of the money is this is where I think this is where we're seeing the breakpoints in the brand deal model being broken.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, I got I mean, I got an email today get these random, what's your rate card? Right? It's like, it's it's this notion of treating influences, like programmable ad units, that still permeates you know, some of the industry not everybody, but

P.J. Leimgruber:

no, it is. And that's definitely the problem. And I think the question needs to be is like, how can we work together? Do you like my product? Is it something that you would use? And how do we build and facilitate not just a one post relationship? But how do we build a facilitated relationship where you're becoming a brand ambassador, and we're supporting you for a year or longer, and I think I encourage that 10 folks that are on the brand side, to really rethink their influencer strategy and that lens and think less about the performance metrics and the views and the numbers and really think about the creation of the fostering a connection between the brand and the creator, the same way that the craters foster that connection with their fans.

Neal Schaffer:

So in parallel with this, we've seen the emergence of what you've used the word microtransactions. And anywhere from the tip jars that you know, even Twitter has recently launched YouTube's how to for a while Patreon, to brands giving out, you know, gifting product, which has become huge over the last year or two, obviously, you feel so strongly about this, that you actually launched a new company around it. So I want to go into how brands can leverage what are these microtransactions? How brands can leverage them? And what was the thought behind your launching of this new company? Sure,

P.J. Leimgruber:

so So first, I'll talk about the sort of the plight of the Creator. And then and then I'll sort of tie it and marry it back to brand. So historically, it's been very difficult to make money as a content creator, there's like high engagement and high follower count threshold be changing algorithms of of these platforms, it makes it actually quite difficult for most creators to earn a sustainable living. Now the ones that do earn, they earn very, very handsomely, they're earning through traditionally through brand brand partnerships, or through like an ad revenue share from like a, you know, the company, YouTube or something. But the issue is, is that the Creator economy is now as we see, is becoming one of the fastest growing business set in 2021. There's millions of new creators joining these platforms, you know, this year in the coming years, and we're seeing a desire to interact more authentically and more organically with creators and to give support to them. So that's sort of what has been kind of in the tea leaves in the past few years. Now, in terms of in terms of what it means, you know, in terms of what it means for brands is, I think, with clash, we really want to enable the Creator to not be reliant on the ads, or the brands to earn a living. It doesn't mean that doesn't preclude the brands working with the creators, because I think that that's, that is definitely not going away. In fact, that's ramped up in a big, big way. I think there's over 13, there's predicted over $13 billion in influencer marketing this year. So that's not going anywhere. But what we want, what we want to start thinking is not the creators think about is how do I break away from needing to fit the mold of what the brands are looking for, into saying that I just want to be me, and I want to build relationships with my fans, I want to build my digital community, I want to connect with my writer die Fans. And and and if those fans can support me, and that's enough for me to, you know, quit my job at the coffee shop and start creating full time. That's where we want to that's the problem that we look to solve. And I think where brands can sort of come back into this ecosystem is and I think it may be helpful if I give you should give you a little more context on sort of what we build the class would that be? Yeah,

Neal Schaffer:

yeah. You've mentioned clash. And I knew about the app. You know, our listeners don't know about it. So maybe yeah, just go into what exactly clashes?

P.J. Leimgruber:

Sure, sure. So So at its core, we built clash for content creators to better connect with their rider die Fans, right? I keep saying that term rider die. That was that was who we build clash for and that's the that's the problem that we're looking to solve. We're talking about the ones who were actively invested in the content creators everyday life and that wants to support the Creator. Fans want more than just curated content they want you know, and how we produce content they want to they want to real authentic unpolished captures that bring them closer to the creator's true life. And everything we build the class is thinking about how do we foster a deep connection for those truly loyal, dedicated followers who support their for their favorite creators on every platform? So our ethos is very simple. We want to give power back to creators who make these make the platforms what they are. Whereas other platforms are more focused on rewarding the creators with the millions of followers or the massive brand partnership deals are the tiny blue checkmark next to their name. At clash, we're committed to stewarding like really deep connections with those who generally want to see no and support the real person behind the Creator. So that's that's sort of the problem that we're tackling.

Neal Schaffer:

Gotcha. So is clash, then a, basically a social network? Does it compete with a tick tock and Instagram? No,

P.J. Leimgruber:

no, that's a that's a really great question we specifically do not compete with with a Tik Tok on Instagram. So I think the easiest comparison I can draw here is Patreon. Right? People aren't going to Patreon and looking for for new video discovery like they would on YouTube. They're not if they would, if they were if they're looking to find new content on Patreon, they would they may be disappointed. So this so clashes is sort of works the same way we introduced something a digital good lesson to your to the app that allow fans to show financial support to their favorite kind of thing about a tip jar, no layout for your favorite neighborhood busker we introduced this digital good called drops and drops are a way of for class to empower fans to drop their appreciation and support their favorite creators right into their digital wallet. And these digital goods, they can be gifted endlessly to any and all creators inside the class economy and the creators that receive them can redeem them in monthly monthly intervals. So class doesn't necessarily we don't, we're an enhancement tool for tick tock or Instagram, we want the creators to continue to post there because that's where they, that's where they build their audience. And that's for their stats for their big audience, right, we want to get there want to grow their their top line numbers, they're going to do so on Tik Tok, or they're going to do so on Instagram, and they want to start thinking about building better connections with those fans, and monetizing directly from those fans, then they would come over to clash. So I think we're thinking about is how can we take what Patreon did for YouTube? And how do we give that to the Tick Tock and Instagram and sort of Gen Z creators that are thinking about being a creator full time, you know, the same way people can download Lyft or DoorDash, or Uber and work for themselves? We're seeing, especially with the younger cohorts that they want to be a creator full. So how can they pull out their phone and start creating, they read, they need the Instagrams and the tiktoks for the exposure, and they need class to enable the fan support. So that's where we really fit into the ecosystem.

Neal Schaffer:

And then would say I'm just trying to envision this So Instagram, Tik Tok, hey, you know, come over to class and watch my exclusive content there. When people are on class, they have the ability to gift like the Patreon all within the site while they consume the content. Is it based on some sort of membership fee? Or is it just hey, I'm just gonna be posting different content there. That's where you can support me engage with me? Is that sort of the idea? Yeah, so

P.J. Leimgruber:

Patreon is paywall right and right you know, Cameo, you have to, you know, kind of pay for a birthday shout out. And we've seen some of these other like digital subscription type ads, clashes totally free. So so the content that lives on flash, you don't need to you don't need to pay to access, what we've simply built in is this is dropped. So this enables users to basically pay it forward to the creator community. You know, if you think about, if you think about the actions on social, right, we can like, and we can comment, and if we love a video, we can share it, you know, we can share it in our group, DM, thread and Instagram, we're sort of introducing this new Z axis, which is support if you like it generally, like a video makes you laugh. Or if it's a cooking video and a T shirt or something, you can throw a little support to that creator, if it's a creator that you know that you love and find that followed for a long time and you want to support a more recurring fashion, you can do that as well.

Neal Schaffer:

Got you. And the advantage of this site is it's also where the creators publishing content and where you can engage with them. So it's its own social network as well. But it's an exhilarating,

P.J. Leimgruber:

yes, it's its own social network, as well. We do have a camera you can shoot on here, you can totally come on here and discover more creators and that type of thing. But we're not. We're not thinking about keeping people glued to the screen by like, Okay, we're gonna serve you the most viral content and keep you glued to the app. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But that's sort of the way that tick tock is engineered, you know, you pick up the app, you don't know what you're going to see. And you just sort of steep keep seeing content and you follow who you want to follow clashes is sort of you you curate who you want to follow and then when you open up clash, you're only seeing the content from the people that you know that you that you want to follow. And then we'll recommend new creators based on the creators that you're following that we think you might but it's not necessarily geared around that viral moment or that viral video it's really geared more around I can see it's like a filter for tick tock right. I'm filtering out all the all the noise and the people that I really want to connect with and engage with. They're over here.

Neal Schaffer:

Got you. So would you say then just to sort of summarize, you know, we began talking about Neo reach. And these influencer marketing trends and social media trends. And just getting back to changes that we'll see with influencer marketing 2022. Obviously, you feel so strongly about this this concept of microtransactions and creators not having to rely on brands that you created an app to, to support them. Right. And to feed that economy. Do you think with influencer marketing 2022? It's going to be harder for brands to find to work together with creators? Are brands going to have to loosen up a little Are you how do you see that the landscape shifting next year?

P.J. Leimgruber:

I think I think all of the above, I think what we're going I think the number one thing I want to see is creators thinking about their content, and their audience first, and not thinking about how can I appeal more to brands, and be more attractive to brands to get a brand deal? How can I self censor myself, you know, so I'm more attracted to a brand deal. So that's the first thing I'd like to see in terms of the overall influencer marketing landscape. I think if we can do that, then I think craters won't be reliant on brand deals, you know, or selling merch or other things, or they can just they can just be supported, self supported from their, from their top fans in there, right or die Fans. I think that's the the number one change that we'd like to see happen in terms of influencer marketing itself. I think more and more brands are getting involved, we're still seeing, you know, in the Near East Side, even in 2021 brands are still big brands that you have heard of are still now just running their first influencer marketing campaign. So I still think I still see the space growing rapidly. What I hope to see there is brands really engaging more with longer term partnerships with creators and getting less out of the sort of transactional This is how many impressions that I can get from this campaign really start to think about creators and their long term marketing strategy and content marketing strategy. We're seeing things like creators taking over brands tick tock account and you know, creators posting on on on the brand's actual branded account, I think things like that is great. I want to see more of that into 2022. and beyond.

Neal Schaffer:

It's funny influencers, content creators, they're better at creating content than a lot of brands, yet brands want to micromanage, that same content creation process, when they work with influencers, which is always driven me crazy. And hopefully, we'll, we'll see a lot less of that and let the content creators do what they're good at, which is going to benefit the brand at the end of the day.

P.J. Leimgruber:

You're You're spot on, you know, and it's sort of the same thing, like the emergence of meme culture, you know, like brands Can't they can't do most brands don't do names. Right. You know, and

Neal Schaffer:

he tries, I'll give them that. But try.

P.J. Leimgruber:

So. So yeah, I think and I think as we're seeing more and more brands do it. Absolutely. Right. I think it's easier to take note, and I think we'll see a natural evolution. But I think for the Creator economy as a whole, it is the time to be involved in this space. It is a great time to be a creator, it is a great time to be a brand marketer and thinking about working with I think it is in a renaissance period. I think we'll look back at this particular time, you know, in history when we're when social media is fully evolved, and we're all in some digital Metaverse somewhere. I think we'll look back at this time and think that this was a really very embryonic time for the future of the internet.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, people don't realize, you know, I think when Tik Tok created their Creator fund it was probably more than a year ago, I think, you know, Instagram, I have a creator account and Instagram. So they said, Hey, you can you can get $100 If you sign up and enough people watch your reel. So social networks paying creators to post content is pretty incredible. If you think about it, we unheard of. It's great last year to Yeah, it's awesome. Right? So it is a renaissance, it is a great time to be a creator. I think it's a great time for brands to tap and influence as well. I couldn't agree more do I see a lot more years of great success for near reaching clash. So people can obviously download I'm assuming the classes available for Android and iOS. And it is spelled like the great band. Hopefully they don't go after you but CLA sh right.

P.J. Leimgruber:

Si la sh. That's correct. We are available on iOS. We are available on Android probably by the time this podcast is published. Okay, cool. We are we are dropping Android any day.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome. And Neo reach obviously any o r EA ch. That's correct.com. Perfect. PDA. Thank you so much. This has been awesome. Hopefully my listeners, the content creators out there, you'll go and check out clash and even if you're a brand just to check out what all these right now you don't see PJ but he's wearing a send drops hat. So you have to find out what all these drops in microtransactions are about and how your brand can figure out a way to fit into that ecosystem and support creators as well. So PJ, thank you so much for dropping all your knowledge with us today.

P.J. Leimgruber:

I appreciate it. And you know, my impassioned plea to the creators is if this is something that you think is a long term fit for you. You want to develop better relationships with your fans download clap, give us a try our team is is we're very active in working with creators we love working with and supporting with our creators. So shoot us a DM and you will take great care of you.

Neal Schaffer:

Awesome. Thank you so much PJ.

P.J. Leimgruber:

Thank you meal.

Neal Schaffer:

All right, I really hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I enjoyed it really a pleasure talking with, like I said, one of who I believe is one of the pioneers in the space of influencer marketing. And obviously, his developing this new App class just sort of shows you the direction that all of this is going. Hey, I hope you enjoy the episode, I just want to remind you that I also have a mastermind group called Digital First, it began as a group coaching community, but the members ended up having so many experts themselves, that it really became a mastermind. We're a small group, we meet four times a month over zoom for an hour, we have our own private slack group. It's where I show up, it's where I want to help every member as much as possible with their marketing. And often we go beyond marketing into really business coaching. So if you're interested in that, I hope you'll check out Neal Schaffer comm slash membership. It's a really, really low monthly fee to join. So anyway, if you're interested, please check that out. And once again, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for continuing to listen to this podcast. If you haven't subscribed, please make sure you do so. So you don't miss an episode. And as always, I am appreciative of all the reviews that you've all written. I'll stop here. It's all I got to say for today. Until next time, everybody. This is your digital marketing coach Neal Schaffer signing off. You've been listening to your digital marketing coach, questions, comments, requests, links, go to podcast dot Neal schaffer.com. Get the show notes to this and 200 plus podcast episodes at Neal schaffer.com to tap into the 400 Plus blog posts that Neil has published to support your business. While you're there, check out Neil's Digital First group coaching membership community if you or your business needs a little helping hand. See you next time on your digital marketing coach.