Did you know that my new book on influencer marketing, The Age of Influence, began as a test market on a crowdsourcing platform for authors called Publishizer? It's true! You can even see my original proposal page here: https://publishizer.com/the-business-of-influence/. Today's podcast is looking at the personal side of influence for those that want to yield more influence by becoming a published author. If it wasn't for Lee, my new book wouldn't have been written, so I hope today's episode inspires YOU!
For those interested in my pre-order campaign for The Age of Influence, make sure you buy a copy of the book from this link and then send a copy of your receipt to neal@nealschaffer before 11:59 P.M. Pacific on March 16. You can find out more about the book and pre-order campaign here: https://nealschaffer.com/influencer-marketing-age-of-influence/
The Age of Influence page on Amazon is here: https://nealschaffer.com/ageofinfluence
This is the Maximize your social influence. Podcast with Neil Schaeffer, where I helped sales and marketing professionals, entrepreneurs and small business owners build leverage and monetize their influence in digital and social media. Everybody welcome to episode number 149 of the Maximize Your Social Influence Podcast. My name is Neil Schaefer, and if you are listening to this podcast for the first time, this podcast is really for marketers, entrepreneurs, small business owners. We look at marketing digital marketing and, as the name suggests, social media marketing. But we also look at a lot about the concept of influence, whether it is influencer marketing for businesses or it is you yourself wanted to become more influential in digital and social media. So I try to, uh, put a unique perspective on things that maybe you can't hear on other podcasts out. I hope if this interest you and obviously for all of my current listeners, hopefully you've already pressed that subscribe button wherever you are. But I do hope that you do. If you haven't so today's episode is going to be with the Constantine of Publish Isar. Those that know me know that I'm coming out with a new book March 17th called The Age of Influence. And if it wasn't for Lee, simply put, that book would never have been written. Now I often get asked, Neil, should I write a book How to write a book? How did I get published? A lot of those questions I will answer in this interview with Lee. For those of you that don't know, Publish Izer is sort of like a Kickstarter for authors. And it is the platform that I used to really test market right in the Pat Flynn. Will it fly? And I hadn't even in all honesty read his book when I did it, but I was basically doing the same thing. I was test marketing the idea. Would someone want to read a book about influence and influence of marketing if I wrote it? And boom! That led to selling already several 100 copies in advance and then eventually signing with HarperCollins leadership HarperCollins being one of, if not the largest publisher? Ah, business books here in the United States. So there you have it, So if that interests you, even if it doesn't interest you, I think the notion of influence and becoming an author. This is something that should interest you because I think depending on your industry, obviously it's different. But there's still a lot of great books to be written, a lot of great books to be read and really becoming a published author. While it may not be the same as it was 10 20 years ago because of the advent of self publishing, it really does give you social proof. Give you authority. But more than that, it gives you something to talk about. It gives you something to give your fans, give potential clients. It is an amazing device, an amazing vehicle, and I urge everyone to really consider it. And hopefully, after listening to the podcast, you will have a better idea as to how the publishing industry really works today in 2020. Before we get to the interview, I do want to remind you that this podcast, or this episode at least, is being sponsored by The Age of Influence, my new book coming out on March 17th. Obviously, it's geared towards this audience. Marketers, entrepreneurs, small business owners, you want to understand you wanna leverage and you really want to get the most you can out of collaborating with influencers. And even if you're an influencer and you want to become more influential, I urge you to read the book as well, because you're gonna learn ah, lot about how the industry works, had a better position yourself. And I do have some content in there of how and why you should yield more influence in digital social media and you brands and businesses should as well. So if you listen to previous episodes, you would know. But if you didn't you listen to Episode 144. How to do influence or marketing the right way in the age of influence. That's where I announced this presale campaign. The book is available for preorder on Amazon, and if you do that and send me a receipt and I'll put the link that gives you more information in the show notes, you're going to get access to two exclusive webinars only for those that pre purchase my book one is going to be on had a scale your digital brandy and I gave a preview to that on Episode 148 and the other is going to be all about blogging and CEO. And this is another important type of influence that someone can yield in digital media and being a blogger for Wow almost 12 years now and having 60 70 guest bloggers on Neil schaefer dot com and when it was called Maximize social business dot com Before that, I have a lot of insight and experience as to what I believe works and doesn't work in blogging and a lot of mindset that I think a lot of bloggers don't have. And I want to make sure that you yield the most maximum influence you can in your blogging. So I hope you'll join me for both of those. Once again, check out the show notes for the Link as how you can participate by preordering the book and sending me the receipt and that's it. Let's now move on to the interview with Lee Constantine of Publicize ER today, this podcast is going to be all about from marketer to influence her to author, how to climb your way up the influencer pyramid by becoming a published author. I'm really excited for this episode. I get to introduce a I won't say a business partner, but he almost feels like it with cheese. Help me and my upcoming book, which we're gonna talk about later in this episode as well. The one and only the Constantine from Publish Iser. The Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the show.
Yeah, Neil, Thanks for having me. Really glad that you could have me on super excited for it.
So the how would you describe a publish Eyes? I know you reached out to me for the first time, probably October of 2017. We've known each other more than a year and 1/2 now, but how do you describe publicize ER to those that don't know anything about
it? Publishes WAY evolved quite a bit over the past three years, but published Wiser. I think the best way to describe it is a literary agency that specializes in pre order campaigns. We like to say crowdfunding literary agency, but yeah, we're specializing getting author's book deals a lot of the commercial nonfiction fiction why they really spans across the board. But we're really pretty strong in public like yours, Neil. Business influence? Yeah, commercial nonfiction.
Just to get back to the point so a literary agency. I think there's a lot of people that are listening that let's take a step back, right? I mean, it's fine because I describe publicized different ways. You could imagine not being the CEO and founder or head of growth founder thinking, Let's take a step back and then we'll get into sort of how publish Isar works. I know a lot of people are very curious, but let's take a step back into book writing. And we both agree that every professional, you know, we always say, Hey, everybody has a good book in them too, right? Right based on their own experiences And I think we're getting to the point now with personal branding, the democratization of influence that really every professional should write a book, and I think we both agree about that. But you know, what's your take on that day? Why? Why do you think Everybody listen here? I should go out and maybe sign up to publicize her with a book idea and some testing waters.
I mean, that's that's a really good question. I mean, there are many reasons why you know, a professional should write a book right and I'll give the order of the big one. Um, I mean, number one ah, book really helps you spread your message. I mean, as professional that wants to become an expert or you're becoming an expert expert typically have unique methodologies and formulas. Really unique insights. Yeah, allow them and others to achieve success in putting this in book form is really credible medium to spread that message further, that's probably first and most important, the 2nd 1 I typically say his credibility. A book does help establish you as a thought leader or an influencer. Or however you want to describe that, especially a really good book. So a really good book. Deaf people love reading. They want to share with others. It does a lot of things to establish when you're Brenda's a thought leader, and it makes people want more of what you have to say. So you could say any of the moon. This is the beginnings of influence, or this is influence. But this stuff becomes more difficult to obtain without that credibility. Third thing is, it's really a step towards building your career or your personal brand, I would say, as an author and a lot of most influences are also author, So ah, book is not a means to an end. It's a stepping stone to bigger things. Maybe you have many book ideas and this is your first look. You're stabbing yourself, you're getting readership or you're becoming a speaker and you want to increase your speaking here or whatever it is. Ah, book. We allowed you to do that.
The those are all great answers. I, I guess, from my perspective and experience. You know, I think of a book as a business card, So if you have aspirations, if you want to, if they're places you want to go with your career with your life, I think that book is going to be the best way to help you get there. And I think what a lot of people forget about is when you write a book, it's really the process that generates, ah, lot of great things for people. So, you know, do you have the passion? Write a book about a subject that you think you're an expert on or something that you want to become an expert on, and I think just going through that process you're gonna realize gaps in your understanding. Potentially in the process, you might have the ability needed to do some research that you might not have thought of doing before. You're gonna cover insight. You may want to reach out to experts, and it gives you a reason to reach out to experts and actually engage with them. And at the end of the day, as you start telling people that you are writing a book, it leads to further engagement from your community and maybe from people at work. So I really do think it's an amazing vehicle. Obviously, at the end of the day, you'll have an achievement, which is a published book which is going to stay with your professional brand forever s. Oh, you know, I know that a lot of people listening to this if you are a cell, open your it's a no brainer because it is that business card. If you own your own business. Small business owner, what have you? It's a no brainer because it's a business card. But even if you don't, there are enough reasons to cop it. To really differentiate yourself in the market and make yourself on entity that people want to work with, one of higher want to do business with. That'll last throughout your entire career. I can't speak highly enough about it. You know, I started writing books, my first book I wrote back in 2009 when self publishing was very, very early on and I wrote it because I was in transition and I had already started blogging. So why not put it in a book format? Get it out there in the world and it's so easy to do now, right? And that's That's the publishers were really helped me in that this obviously is 10 years later. But if you're a first time author or first time book writer, just the exposure gets all started from people that can help you along. That journey was pretty incredible. So So, yeah, you know, at this point, really Listen, this podcast, you're probably already thinking about writing a book and my job, and I would assume Leah's well is really to get you that stage where I put it in an idea, put it in a plan and at these, get it up there, publicize it and test market, and that's exactly what I did. Know what sort of jumping ahead to what we wanted to talk about later on. So let's take a step back now. These So, you know, we talked about why everybody should consider writing a book. A lot of people listen, this podcast want to become more influential in what they do. And I think all of us would rather carry more influence than thus influence. So how as an author, as you start writing the book, even if it's not published how how do you think? Andi, why do you think authors beginning yield that influence?
This is actually pretty nice segue into what you were mentioning earlier about. There's a lot of ways, first of all, but like you said, you know, like when we started writing this proposal, it really makes you home your message and what really is this idea, right, Because you could be writing pieces of con taking to flog a and you can be on podcast. You could be doing a lot of things that don't necessarily bring it you attraction or awareness for thought, leadership, or even helped build the influence. Right? So one is we start reading this book proposal like you mention before it really forces you to bring the book from an idea. And it's a mess. Really tangible item that. Okay, mix on a sense. Who is the book for? What other books out there are like this. Are they complimentary? Are they competing? How do you position this? Where is this gonna fall? How reader's gonna take this in, like, really wide us an author make this unique so that applying to a book is super important. And then the writing process is another step that you take, And that really falls in line with how you start yielding this influence as an author, right? Cause you know, Neil, as you like What? You have something that people want more from one. People want to hear what you have to say. That we started fucking influence. So, you know, Jack wasn't value that it could bring the table once you have that as an idea. There were so many ways that you could basically start giving influence, but there are, like, very few surefire ways, right? I mean, you could be great at it. As an author, you were great at book tours. and you can command an audience. They sell tons of books, but that's really difficult, and a lot of people don't do that well. But what does work well in the book phase is, at least in my experience, is one. It's really great book, so it's well edited. It's very marketable, and it's usually back by a publisher that could have to get it out there. Would you have these things in place? You basically have to be able to promote that message. Tell the book, Actively building a brand. Your email is your influence around the idea. And then you use other mediums like you speaking, Get on podcast. Do plugging. A lot of these things contribute to one influence as an author, but influence as us brand with book being one of your products. So there's a lot that goes into it. You have to choose what works for you.
Yeah, I think what a lot of people forget is sort of human psychology that oh, you've written a book. It just completely crippled for running me. You probably felt the same. But even today, even in the day of you know, Millennials and Gen. Z even my kids. You don't talk about my books, right? Like you know, they're friends like Oh, your dad's a published author. He's famous, you know, these these fourth graders. So it really is evergreen that you have something published. Therefore you're perceived as an expert and it's funny with social media. And when I work with businesses and my advice to all my clients is if you were to have a targeted approach, right, if you weren't and it's funny on my block today, in fact, I should read this to you, and I think I will. On this is just example, let me read this to you because this speaks to a lot of what what a book is about and why you're you'd influence. And this was a comment, and you can actually see it on my block Post The Definitive Guide Instagram affiliate market. And so a friend of mine has an INSTAGRAM account where she post pictures related architecture. The pics she posts are all selected from different websites. I d. None of the pictures or hers. This is an example curated content right and I have seen people write books purely have interviews with other people. I don't I don't know if that's right for everybody. But it has been done rightly, where you ask submissions from experts. So it's the same concept or on Twitter of just sharing other people's content, right? She usually mentions the website where the picture came from, though she often doesn't know the name photographer as the pictures were carefully selected, right? This is the value of content, curation. But this is also the value as an author bring when you have your your own unique perspective to whatever angle you're covering about a different subject. She already has almost 300,000 followers, and she intends to monetize the profile by using some of the techniques you guys teach. Now the question was about copyrights, whatever precautions she should take. And my my response was simply, please, you know, a higher lawyer to answer those questions for you. But but that is an example, right of someone who had a very targeted approach of sharing content or publishing content about a very, very specific subject matter in it, as we like to call it, And from that they were able to yield influence, build a community, get more views because they were seen perceived as an expert on the subject. If you would, I'm gonna throw this out there. If you were to write a book on something, you would be perceived as the expert on that. Now, this is my own story. The you'll remember We started talking and it can you You have any book ideas I'm like, Well, I got a few book ideas are always a book ideas because I have this for those that know me have this unfinished Twitter book, which I still have. So, you know, I have this Twitter book. I want to write a new victim book, which is gonna be more about social selling side of LinkedIn, sort of a revision of another book that I wrote back in the day. And then I have the topic of influencer marketing. That's also the topic of employees advocacy. And I still think it's a great book to be written about. And Lee, we agreed. Let's go from Florence, a market I thought that would be the most relevant as well. So, you know, I wasn't an expert per se. There are people that have been blogging about influence or marketing for several years. There are books that have been written about influencers. Sure, I had been hired as an influence or my agency worked with influencers, but it wasn't, you know, I hadn't really written much content about it other than the work I did from her clients, as well as how I taught it to executives at universities and I teach at so. But I threw the idea out there, and this is what publisher was great for. Obviously, I hope that everybody who looks at publisher would actually want to go through the process and completed a write a book. But you know, my book, The Business of Influence, which would be called the Age of Influence when published, was really about a test market oven idea. Would people be interested if I wrote this book? But as I do it out there and as I promoted it, people started to see me as an expert in the space, right? This is human nature, the same reason why that architecture, you know, profound Instagram has 300,000 viewers or other people have been able to create, and my clients have been able to create communities from just publishing content about a specific Mitchell subject. It is the same concept. So now I'm speaking about influencing, marking on being asked of pretty famous publications in the space for my advice and influence market. Obviously, as you write the book and do more research for your knowledge gaps, you do become an expert. I mean, you focus on one subject. That's that's really what expertise is all about so early. You know, maybe that's just my experience, but I'm assuming that that's relatable, especially for non fiction, for a lot of other offices. Are there any authors? You work with me that have similar stories or any other perspectives that that you could discuss here?
Yeah, definitely. I think you hit on a lot of stuff right there. But I think the biggest thing is it's choosing something that you want to be an expert on, because if the book is successful, that is where you're gonna be known for, and then the big one is consistency. You choose something that if someone is like, people are talking about influence and in social media stuff like this. But you know, if you're consistent with it and you build a community. That's when you start developing expertise and people want more of that content. So it makes it difficult, you know, to write your book on Twitter addicted but difficult right now to announce it. So you gotta kind of go with the wave of influence sometimes, and that's half of what being a thought leader is asking yourself, what topic or area of expertise that you want to be known for. That you think you can provide value, too, and they start sharing content information. Two people who are looking for that extra cute getting clients and partners and endorsers in the same space. You build a community, you go the following email list platform, whatever you want to call it, and then you create a book around that, and it has to be for your readers that have before your community. You have to make the book about them. You do not make the book about you, for instance. No, this is not a book about Neil Schaefer, the book about how people can build influence right? He doesn't know how you build influence and leadership. Usually, you know, unless you have a 1,000,000 followers and you're you're famous on TV. People don't want to hear about you per se. They want to hear from you in what you can do for them. So that is the best way to, I guess, develop a book content and, you know, like you said aloud, The authors that I work with kind of had this this good idea. They had a line to what they want to become an expert, and then they use everything that they've only been working on. For instance, you know, we're with a lot of commercial non fiction. Of course, speakers coaches people who run retreats. People who do are doing client consulting service is who having expertise or people that are founders in a really niche area or their nutritionist or their health. But they have a unique methodology. So being with the bring these into validation, you mentioned validation is also, you know, you can offer coaching packages or workshops to sell your book or to get people interested in your book or or vice versa. You know, I've worked with somebody that was a chef and they offered cooking classes or products like a friend or partner products in order for people do by the book joined their community. Push up more information. I've worked with podcasters who, after special guest spots I've worked with screenwriters well, for writing lessons, tons of unique things that people can do to build your brand. Utilize it to tell your book, and then the last point that you may kneel was was pretty important in. It's really about validation. A lot of times author spend 3 to 6 months on writing their book, and they say This is such a great idea. I have a full minute and then they're going to try to sell it or they try to pitch it to an agent or publisher, and it gets rejected. That doesn't lead more very well. Your typical get rejected or for some of the people is not connecting. So sell your book, utilize these things, validate this message for you know, you take time creating this huge piece of content. It's really lean method for getting a book out there on that really again, the basis for publicize It does for your campaign. Yeah, you know what? You went through all this stuff, but
and, you know, two points. I wanted to make based on what you are saying. You know, Number one is that at the end of the day, I talked about Lincoln. Profiles are not about your past, but about the future you want to create. It's an inbound marketing tool, right? So in the similar What? Your book becomes an inbound marketing tool. Where is it that you want to go? So if there is something you want to sell, your book should be obviously related to that. So, you know, a great case in point. On my previous podcast episode, I had a gentleman named Adrian sought Salomon a vic, and I hope I'm pronouncing his name. Right. Adrian don't know if you're listening, but Adrian hod you know, he was He was basically a startup investor. He had You have successfully launched a few companies and what he ended up doing Waas. He did a lot regarding PR. He was able to get a lot of free PR, and so he decided. You know what? I'm just gonna I'm gonna write a book, and I'm gonna create a program that's gonna help small business owners and entrepreneurs get free pr like I did. It's a perfect example. So he wrote the book called Free PR and you know, if you go to free pr book dot com, you'll see that he actually has a program. The offer's consulting. So it's all related around the book. And this is why I think if you want to ride a fiction book, go for it. I don't know how it's gonna help you, yo, to influence your professional career. That right it might help differentiate you. It might be an interesting, you know, icebreaking conversation topic at a party, But it's really that nonfiction is really thinking. Okay, if I had a book out on this subject, what would it do for my career? What would I do? What would it do for my business? You know, my thing with influence of marketing is I always create content. I'm a little bit unique, but I create content based on customer demand, and I realize that influence the marketing was the single biggest area that I was getting the most questions on yet the least number of good answers or answers that I would think we're good really existed in the market. And it's similar with why wrote maximize your social. Six years ago, it was all about social media strategy. Social media are alive. That that was the number one question I got. It just wasn't clear until I wrote that book. Then it became clear. So I'm hoping. With influencer marketing the age of influence, it becomes the same way. But you gotta think of the book as the vehicle. Where do you want me to take you? And at the end of the day, what are you gonna offer out when people by the book and they want a piece of you they want, They want to hear more from you. They want to get more advice from you. How are you gonna deliver on that? And not something I think that's critical to think up beforehand. But, you know, the other part is, it is the vehicle. So even if you do a test market and you're saying you write a manuscript and get rejected at the least, if you test markets and if you promote it and if you don't get whatever book sales you are looking for, you will have created some great content. You would have probably made new connections. You would have deep in connections of your community. So there's no there's no bad too. And in fact, in doing so, you're gonna learn a lot about the subject and a lot about yourself. And it's like every entrepreneur will tell you. You you fall down nine times and 10th you're successful. You know Gary Vaynerchuk saying, I fucking hate losing. I know. I love losing. Sorry. I love the fucking lose, right? It's the same thing. With every failure, you get that much closer to success. And I think every entrepreneur, well, we'll tell you about But But I any other any other advice on love about
its contents, right? I mean, you're always testing thing. Don't. Even if you have no intention of writing a book, you're pushing content, and you're basically you're validating that this content is gonna be gonna resonate Received. Well, I mean, I remember I had it was more common, I guess maybe 10 years ago, it is not as common anymore, bub, along with huge right. And not only that people started getting a lot of traffic and millions of followers and people write books based on the traffic of their followers and publishers. Walter book deals affect that Dave Kerpen Tons of traffic and lights on his Lincoln articles. He just put them in together into a book and it sold like crazy Mark Manson. You know, a 1,000,000 subscribers turn it into a bug. He was. I think he was top of the transfer, like, really long. So that is a common way to test it out and didn't turn into book later. Usually these days, I think it's done the all the way around. You want to write a book on it? You're testing some things up, but you don't get massive subscribers on. And that's just one medium like print that you were speaking, for instance, And get speaking gigs. That's great. You get in front of a lot of people, and if you're lucky, maybe half the people like we have to say and how you. And if you're lucky, if you start getting doing podcasting, blogging lucky 10% of them like you, and then you can tell them your book. And in all this stuff. So you basically start gaining percentages of people that like what you have to say the same more of that. And I think That's just the starting of how you not only build the book, but how you start building your personal brand, your leadership, your influence, all these things always working together at all times.
Yeah, And you know, we didn't really cover that concept of influencer or influence in more detail. But if you wanna yield Maur influence, if you think, why are people listening to this person? They should be listening to me. You obviously need content. You have to have something to say and you need to get out there and you really do need to build that community. I mean, Dave Perkins able to do that cause gas is huge community, right? And Gary Vaynerchuk as well. He could write a book every year, and he sell many copies of each book. I'm sure so. And what's interesting is that the paradigm shift with publishers marketing your book to publishers, be more distributors and facilitators. And at the end of the day, it's really up to us as a new author to market your own book. And I think this is probably universal at this point, right, So even if you're working with a publisher, you're still sort of have found that mentality that yourself of this author, you need job market the heck out of your book. You know, you need to be your best advocate in anything in life. So and that's gonna start with having that community. So you do. Definitely. If you really want to be successful with this, you could create a community from the book. It will take a little bit longer. But ideally, I think Lee and you probably the same opinion of this when publishers are looking to work with author so to to explain the publisher eyes of process. You put together a book plan you that uploaded and you accept pre orders for your book. And you could be You know, my book was 25% done when I started my publisher Isar Campaign and in full transparency, right. You put the information up, you throw it out there and you see what sort of interest your community might have been buying that book, right? So But when publishers to start reaching out to you, they're gonna be looking at how much traffic is your block Yet? How many followers you have on Twitter? How many followers do you have linked in on Facebook and Instagram? How many times you speak publicly throughout the year? Because speaking is a great way to push books in quantity, even if the organizer doesn't want to buy your books. Just having your books there and being able to sell 5 10 25 copies, whatever it is, Right? So that's why if you really want to be successful at this, you won't become an influence or the way you really do need to build that platform. You need to find your niche, which is gonna be based on your experience, ideally, and your passion. And you need to start creating content and that content. And, you know, I don't know if Dave Kerpen actually went to him, analyzes things imposed Which ones did better or worse. But, you know, I just content. You begin to get data right. What is my community interested in? What is what is a hot topic just based on number of comments or shares, or your Google analytics how much traffic you got on? And then from there you slowly begin to build this community. I should begin to become a more active publisher of content, and it's just a matter of, you know, writing the book is just an extension of that. And I think it's an important step. But a lot of people miss only I mean, I'll talk to other authors and publishers, Isar community, people that are their top of their game professionally. And they're like, I'm gonna write a book and they just never build a platform. And I think that that platform and it's obviously the word of Ah, Michael, hi, a great book. But I think that every author, every professional, I think really needs that to support them, whether it's just that, you know, two or 300 linking connections that could help you find your next job or friends on Instagram there, you know, like a pure pose. We all need to have that support here, you know, today and in social media,
the P word, the platform where I met a telephone book a lot because that's one of the things that publishers love to have a nerd did sell a book, and that's what sells books. But platform is super important. Have even if you don't write a book because this is basically what you're how you build your your business or how you're building your community or how you're building your brand. So the things that publishes look for with the platform are, Yeah, your your instagram followers or your Twitter followers or followers are baking or your email list or your page views like you said, or your your blog's hours old. This stuff is important because it indicators that indicators when referring to a book that indicators that you can talk to consumers and your followers in a way that gets them to engage with you and possibly sell your book later on. Knowing that you need to do the marketing for your book is one thing. But knowing how is like a completely different story. It takes strategy. It takes commitment to build a platform tomorrow, Keep your book, and that is always Yeah, like you said, it's the responsibility of the author. Altar should know that they need to sell the books. They're committed to their own success. No one's gonna tell your book for you. And then when I say these indicators like $20,000 on Twitter. Yes, it looks very nice, but social media isn't always the strongest platform to tell you. But it's just an indicator that you can develop relationships to sell that book, too, in another format, like maybe an email or through a personal message like That's how you get stuff done. That's how you build the platform to Really, That's how you sell books, these other things, these platforms again, just indicators of the strength of of your relationships.
Yeah, and that's really great point as an author, it or as an influencer. And I really see being an authoress as you know, a type of influence. Or but it's funny. I'm about to record a podcast episode about Pinterest, and you have all these people on Instagram that you had a lot of influence. But at the end of the day, what businesses want when working with influences like what publishers won't work with authors is they want sales. They want conversions. They don't like anyone comments. They want to see people actually buy stuff, and Instagram, as an e commerce platform, is still a little bit limiting. But you have other platforms, like Pinterest that probably you know if you're on instagram influence or talking about certain subjects, those subjects, while they do really, really well on Pinterest and people buy by clicking from Pinter's to assign. So why aren't more influences on Pinterest? But let's take a step back even further. Why don't a lot these influences have their own website? So this to me, I when writing my book, I just feel there's a lot of fake influence out there. You know, buying a big followers, buying a fake engagement and when I see an influence, it doesn't even out there. Our website, it really makes me question their credibility that they just pop up on instagram by fake followers and fake engagement. So it looks like an influence, right? Something. The websites. There's a lot of different issues, but it's really the email list that is also that other critical component you know, social comes and goes. The social networks controlled the algorithms. You may be getting a lot of likes on instagram today. There's no guarantee that happens tomorrow, but really the website where you bring people back into your brand in your home and then obviously your email list, where you can stay in better touch of people. These are the things the other two pieces outside of social and probably the two most important pieces that are gonna help you sell your book. And, you know, believe it or not, help yield influence because you know, at the end of yielding the influence, if you want to work with businesses as an influence or if you want to sell more books, you need to be able to contact people. And you can't send direct messages to all 100,000 of your Instagram followers or all your 30,000 think connections mean you can't one at a time on dhe. That's really where that email list and the website on staying in. Better touch with people. And if you're not a soldier, you're not searching the Web. You're reading email, even today, even younger generations. So that's always been my advice. And yeah, you're rightly it's not just about social Social does not necessarily convert that well, but either way you really need to have a community, no matter where they are in what media. But I would recommend. I mean, if you're writing a booking out content, you could be blogging teasers of that content from your website on, obviously sharing it over email to those that may want an update on. Because if you send out something on late dinner on Facebook or, you know, whatever platform only x percent of your community where we're gonna see that post anyway, right, So a lot of things to consider I don't wantto overwhelm our our listeners all the stuff they have to dio. But if you know, if you really want to go about it the right way, that would definitely be the recommendation. And I think that obviously publishers really look at Web sites and they really want to know pay. What sort of email list do you have? It's probably something's gonna come up in the negotiations, I assume
at some point at some point,
all right, so you know, we've covered a lot of ground. Let's get to finding a publisher for your book. So and let me take one step back because this is advice. I get asked about this a lot leads, so part of my interview and you is also me having a place to provide my advice on the subject. But, you know, if you want to write a book, most books are four and corrective around the 40 60,000 words. So let's just 6 60,000 words. This is 5000 words, 12 chapters. So if you can divide your what are the 12 main things you want to tell someone in the book, or about your experience, Whatever it is, you know, 12 bullet points underneath this bullet points based on those things you want to talk about, what are the three important things to consider when talking about those points? So you have 12 bullet points. You have three sub bullet points for each chapter, and you're looking at creating like 4 to 5000 words, or even, like 3,505,000 words for Chapter. And that's how you divide and conquer. And if your block post that filling some of the some points, great. If not, you create new content. You block out a day, a week, a few hours a week, a Sunday, a week, whatever it is and you do it on. This has been always been my process. It's it depends on different for different people. For me, it's been 2 to 3 months. If I if I'm in the zone and I'm really focused, I'll be able to write that book, but it's not impossible. It's something that I think everybody can and should do. So so you have the book idea. You uploaded the publicize or you're talking about it with your community. You're starting to gauge interest. You're seeing if people would spend 15 $2025 to actually pre order a book that has yet to be finally written. And then once you're on publish Isar, you start to get a lot of emails from a lot of different people. Some are publishers, many publishers that you may have never heard of. There's also a hybrid publishers. There's self publishers of vanity publishers. There's people that say, Hey, I can help you with your editing. I can help him with ghost riding I can help you with. You know, all of the graphical layout. I could help you This I'm good book covers. I could help you pr about your book. So now in 2019 I don't want to aid his podcast, cause this is really every content, but you have a whole eco system of service providers, you know, When I started self publishing back in 2009 that just did not exist. But now, after a decade, that it's easier than ever. But now how do you go about? I mean, the real question is, how do you sort of navigate that and decide on the best way to find a publisher for your book? And we can talk about. Furthermore, what sort of publisher should you work with? Me. I know that's your expertise, but you know, the from my perspective. And I think you'd agree. If you're looking to get a publisher for your book, you're either going to self publish. And if you want to sell published, go to Amazon. Kindle direct publishing Boom yourself publishes it. It's not hard to do right, or you're going to go the ancient route of sort of, you know, working with an agent and writing a proposal and, you know, pitching it or you are going to independently reach out to publishers that may or may not know you and, you know, try to find acquisition editors. And that's really hard to go or, you know, in the middle of this big space, that's right. See publishers right as why you know this is the inbound marketing way to publish your book. In essence, because there's so many publishers now the publishers has gotten so big, so many publishers are monitoring and watching publicize her and seeing how many pre sales people get seen the interest. Whether you decide to sell, published or work with a major publisher live with like Harper Collins and I'm doing it gives you the most flexibility to decide what you want to do with your book. And it gives you that exposure to publishers so you don't necessarily have to work with an agent, although there might be instances where you want to. But you don't have to, and you may not have to go out and and seek the advice of of acquisition editors, because all exactly is this your creditors are actually coming out and talking to you. So, Lee, would you agree that sort of the landscape today of what's possible and that great Mitch that publicize her? Fitz?
Yeah, that was pretty great. Thanks. You know, I would say just adding on top of that is typical route to a publisher. If you're not gonna go with self publishing, you're gonna go to attrition right in the typical way to do that? Yeah. You want to seek an agent or you just start clearing these publishers directly, which requires a really great book idea. It requires a book proposal because that's what they used to say. Yes or no. I don't want to work with you. What is super? I don't want a depressing, but it's ah, about 96% of every book proposal ever in there. A 1,000,000 every single year that we're getting rejected by agents, my publishers, for numerous reasons which I can get into. But a lot of times you need these indicators. You need these indicators of okay beyond the idea that proposal can you, as an author, still your book? Once I decide that this is a good path So it takes a lot of prep work. You have to know yet to Dio and as part of a publisher does is well, So agent is one. The 2nd 1 is you just build such a great influence and you have a publisher is discovering, discovering you and ask you to publish without agent. Better yet, you get to publishers to discover you and you can choose the best one difficult, but rare. But this is happening quite often are often enough. So yeah, publicized. How we fit into all of that is we're working with a lot of publisher, traditional and nontraditional. But no matter what is, you're gonna start marketing your book. You're gonna start selling your book when you're published, no matter what. Whether you self published whether you go with the traditional or non tritium publisher publish, Isar basically helped you form a good book idea. We have to write a great proposal that we think and sell to our partners at a traditional level because you can always go with nontraditional matter. What, uh and then you're gonna basically start telling your book ahead of time. So you just reaching out to people to sell copies of your book to basically validates that you can sell, And then this action makes a very strong so for publicize, it could get you a deal. So in that fashion, we're acting as your agent. But we're not rejecting book ideas were helping you basically prove that you can bring traction to this book idea because typical traditional agents reject books for many reasons. One is, uh, They simply don't like the book idea subjectively if they don't like the book idea and they're gonna reject a really great book idea that fathers gonna get discouraged and going self published. Second, they don't have the number behind them to publish your specific boat, even though again, it could over here, get really great publishing deal and get traction. But that agent just reject. All right again, you get discouraged and go in self published, so we kind of take a different trajectory. Side rejecting authors isn't Let's help you prove that this is worthy. And then, no matter what, if we don't get you a big deal, there's all these other types of really fast corn independent publishers who can help get your book out there further. So that's really how we decide. Thio Gal. You publish either as a platform and help a lot of authors from first time authors, fiction authors to establish commercial commercial business authors. That is a wide range of authors and publishers, always looking attack last one.
Yeah, really? I know that you know, we began this conversation. I think that the platform you we started with you describing publicize her as an agency, I really consider publicizing to be the Kickstarter for authors write and there really is no other platform like it. So And, you know, I also want to remind people that want to write a book, the that maybe, you know, an updated figure. What is the average number of books that a self published author sells, and I want to see if your number is the same as mine.
Yeah, I'm curious on this stranger, but he is a such a common question. Right? For me, the United exam is on the average amount of books sold by the, uh, the average self published author. I have 2 50 No, I don't know what you have 5 to 50.
Well, I have 50 bucks is a number. I heard you. In other words, right. Most office do not think about much, but so that's the other thing is you get it up and publish Isar. You only sell 50 copies. You are. You're already on the average, right?
there's so many people. Get a Hey, I'll get it up on Amazon. It'll sell tons. Well, it doesn't work that way. Right? You need to do the work, and you need to have that community behind you. So, um, you know, that's like I said for every aspiring author or you need to really go out there and engage and build that community, become an influence in your industry. That's gonna be a dedicated chapter in my upcoming book, The Age of Influence. They also plan to start a mastermind. For those of you that pre ordered through the publishers of Campaign, there was this mastermind for the business of influence. How do you feel more influence? And I think that's that's gonna be critical, you know. Now move forward. But getting back to obviously using publicize her and the other avenues that you can use to be able to decide. You know what type of publisher work with or how to find publishers? Let's take a step back again and the can you sort of helped me navigate or help our listeners. Now they get the landscape of the different types of publishers that exists, and I know that, you know, on publish eyes, almost every type of this publisher exists and reach out the authors. But can you sort of talk about all the different publishing options that you know, things like hybrid publishing. And what have you
You're not gonna self publish. You choose to go toward the comm or traditional path and get a publisher. There's only two options that you have one of the traditional publisher and the others and nontraditional, so traditional, like the Big Five like Penguin Harper, Collin A. Ll. The big group out there that have a lot of distribution. Also in traditional is fast growing independence. They're not a part of the big Five groups that you typically are no bum, really great daddy to authors. They do high level editing. They do have big kind of dances, and they get you into distribution into research. Pinto reached out books. That's what you want as nothing. That's kind of an ideal scenario. The non traditional is a hybrid publishers. There's usually a small front cost or there's ah purchase requirement. But there was still publish your book picture book up for their They're gonna help you feel more than 50 copies. So you it is a better option and you have the support on that you wouldn't have on your own on. They have conservative publishers, people who are just doing pay me interesting. I'll publish your book so there's a lot of varying degrees of publishers and what they bring to the table. But it depends on a couple main factors in terms of which ones you can work with. Its quality of idea indicators that you have an author platform is always something they ask for. But it's not always a deal breaker, right? It's Harper Collins is gonna offer publishing it for anyone that has 10 K followers in the book. The book is super important, but sometimes the book I did Trump's followers if you have 200 people in the email contact, but your book, that is amazing and you're showing potential trigger yourself. Yeah, there's a book deal and play for you. So this is why publishers able to get so many different types of publishing deals instead of an agent only gonna feels I could get a high paid them. So, yeah, don't discount any type of publishing deal anytime you can get someone to support your book partner with you, get this thing out there in a way that you necessarily can do in your own. It's a really big added value in their tongue of details that I simply there too many D 1000 publishing to go over, but at a broad high level. I think that it's good to know.
Yeah, I think it's gonna come down to Do you want to sell? Publisher? Do you want to work with the publisher now? I've done both my 1st 2 books Self published My Last Woman Y B in this next one with Harper Collins. So two of those you know, Big Five or Big Seven. How everyone account of big publishers I worked with? Yeah, yeah, and I think that's for me. I like the idea partnering. I like the idea of having alliances, and I see a publisher as a partner. I don't see a publisher's someone's gonna do everyone any anything and everything for me. But, you know, it leaves the questions out of the process. Is this editor of the right person we working with? Should I hire a separate proof reader Should the colors of my design is really gonna sell because I was the book designed book cover design is very important as well. It just, you know, I'd rather work with a team of experts and share the profits with them so that I can focus on the content and the promotion. Now that's me. Everyone's gonna be different. But that's why even if I wasn't able to work with the traditional publisher and it was a nontraditional independent, a type of publisher that is not as well known, maybe not have half as good of a distribution at the least what those publishers should help you work with. This is editing, obviously, you know, copy editing, hopefully some development, editing proof, reading, book cover design, the graphic layout, the distribution. And there's obviously going to be some promotion that's gonna depend on the publisher. But, I mean, that's a lot of work, right? And that requires money. So even if you want to do it yourself, you're still gonna be Project managing someone, and you're always gonna be wondering, Is that Is that the right quality? Where were you know, when you work with a publisher, all those people that provide the service is our vet it. So that's why I prefer the publisher Root and some of you I've told the story of this conversation I had with Mark Shaper, another of the social media shapers. We're not related by the way, but we call each other cousin and social media. And he's a prolific author who went from McGraw Hill. Uh, and now it's self published and he is a big fan of Proponent of Southall machine. So but he already has his editor and everybody all lined up, and I don't know how long it took him to get that to be lined up, but you know that that definitely is an option. But the beautiful thing about publish izer is regardless of the option, the vehicle to get the word out about your buck to get exposure and to be get too easily, accept free orders without having to do any Web coding, right? It's all right there. And that's really the main message I want to tell people. And, you know, I'm gonna be referring a lot of people that this podcast of all the questions I get out, so I just wanna make sure I do a brain double on this information and all this advice, rightly so. You know, we covered a lot the any sort of final thoughts you have on the subject. I think we really did cover a lot but me. I know at the beginning we were talking about doing, like, you know, in a webinar format, and it's funny because of my blood. One of my contributors just published the block post. Why live streams on the new Webinars. So eyes there anything that you wanted me to provide publicize our authors that you can refer them to this podcast where they consort of tap into my experience and I can help them. Let's take that angle Thio and our podcast.
Yeah, for sure, Really great takeaway. I think the biggest question authors has like a run marketing. I mean, once authors are sold on attrition published like they understand the benefits of distribution and credibility. It's really okay, no matter what. I've just sell my book and sold your book. You've gone deals, I guess. What's really great takeaway for publicizing authors, seeing a successful author, sell your book, do the things that we mentioned in the talk gaining influence and letting that guess. What would you would you say to them?
Yeah, I mean, I think we covered it all, but it really begins with you need tohave a digital presence. You need to have a digital footprint need of a website. I volunteer at my elementary school sons PT m actually on the p t. A board on. And my role was Let me help you develop a new website cause your website sucks on. There's a few other things we want to do we wanted we wanted to have our own store where we could customize a lot easier than the software that the Pete the National Piquet gave up. So, you know, I'm not a website developer by any means, but I was able to go on the wicks w x dot com and developed a really, really good looking website for them. Really, really easily it does not, and it's what you know. Domain name is what, $10 a year and monthly on Wickes is like $10 a month. So you're looking at $130 investment. You can hire someone to do it for you if you have a few $100 maybe one or $2000. But it's something you could easily to yourself, but you need to have a digital footprint, and you need to start sharing content about your book or about what you want to write about. And you do that for a few reasons. Number one. This is the ultimate test market. Do I have content to write about? Will other people think this content is interesting? But the other thing is, if you want to build a community, you've got to start somewhere, and obviously you have your own friends and you'll share it with your own personal friends on Facebook or linking connections. You'll start to get feedback. But how do people find other people to follow in? Social media is based on content. They do content searches, the search hashtags on instagram They do. Content searches are linked in on Twitter on pinchers, whatever it is. So you need to seed social media with content and, ideally, you know, whether your content or curated content. We already talked about that Instagram photographer Well, not a photographer, but a curator. So there's there's a role that curated content plays. You need to build a channel plot for whatever you want to call it. You really need to get out there, and even if it's starting once a week or once a month. You need to start that process because that's gonna be book sales. Do not happen magically. People buy from people they like knowing trust. So this is the single most important thing to do is establish that digital presence Web social. If you can create a very, very simple e book and you know, here's a great resource for you. So obviously we have published riser, which you should all be checking out. I mentioned Wickes, but the other one that I have become a big fan of is fiber. So with fiber. And, you know, it used to be something that people joke about the idea that you do a gig for $5. So hey, I just want to record a shout out that someone said, Neil Schaeffer is the greatest author in the world so I can pay someone around the world $5 the record that audio and I could use it as a step in the podcast now, sort of how fiber started. But now you have a lot of great service providers from around the world. You people from the U. S. But you have people around the world that basically, for any marketing task you can think of, there is someone there that can help you. And I say that because if you wanted to just create an e book, I have worked with someone. Thio credit e book on fiber. Right. So I gave some busy credit. A word document. This is an image I want you to cover. Here's a word document here. Some illustrations I wanna put in there created good looking. A book that that'll be in a pdf that is something that could be done Does not have to cost a lot of money. But once you have, it's kind of lead magnet in marketing terms, once you have something that is of value to people that people would want to download. I mean, it gives you something to promote in social media, but it also gives you the ability to begin to acquire email addresses. They don't just come from nowhere. So that's really the minimum. I know it sounds like a lot of work, and hopefully, if you're interested, you know, reach out to me. I'm gonna be putting together a program where I'm gonna help people do this It's not necessarily geared towards authors, but towards businesses and marketers. But I do think that's really what what is necessary. That's the biggest piece of advice that's gonna be the best market for you because everybody is in social media now and we use it for a lot of reasons. But there are a lot of people who use social media for inspiration, for finding information, for learning for so many different things, both personally and professionally. And that's where if you are an author, you you should be playing that role in filling that gap that vacuum and providing yourself. But you need to be there, right? You know. What was it? Wayne Gretzky and Miss 100% of the shots. You don't take one of my all time favorite quotes and you know another one. Woody Allen. 80% of success is showing up, right, so either you're showing up in social or you're not. And if you're not showing up, other people are being listened to, and other people's books are being bought. Yeah, it's muscle memory, right? All of this is muscleman. Writing a book is muscle memory building that pot from that communities muscle memory requires a daily commitment. You need to put together a playbook and you spend five minutes a day, 15 minutes a day. I really want you to focus on your content, developing that book and block content. But it's, you know, if that's the investment you want to make it. It's a light time investment, and you're gonna meet the most wonderful people in the world that are gonna help you in ways you never thought you had that
valuable. Think thinking,
Hey, you're you're very welcome. Yeah, I mean, the You know, all of our answers tend to be very large because it's it's not a simple all right. It's not a simple cookie cutter approach here, obviously. So, Lee, I want to thank you. Once again, you've been listening to the Constantine and Neil Shaver. Publish Isar dot com. Definitely check that out. Leave any last minute thoughts, or did we cover everything that we promised our readers of ourselves? We wed.
I think we've covered a lot of you. Cover a lot of good stuff. No, thanks. So much for having me on super nice catching up with you. Always super nice. So thanks. So much.
Hayley, Thank you. It's been awesome, but I do hope that, you know, you go back and listen from the beginning. You ever thought about writing a book or becoming an influencer or are just curious? This one hour podcast will answer all those questions. Lily, thank you so much. Big fan of Publicize er can't wait to get my book published and get that case study of successful authors. That room. You know, I'm a fan, and I've supported a few of the publishers and authors as well. So even if you don't want to write a book yet, go out to publicize her dot com. Check out some of the books that are accepting three orders. You may find a great book or two and reach out to the office and start a conversation. Staking offer advice is, well, right Way didn't even cover that entire community aspect of publicizing. So you want to say about that
books for preorder all the time. That public has a brand new book. Idea is amazing. New authors and you find looks like meals and tons of other influences, and Children often things up. Yeah, nice plug. Don't think. Think that
Heber. It just It's not about lucky. That's all about sharing the love and sincere, honest, true fans. So, Lee, thanks again. You know, we've never met in person. Feels like I've known you like your brother. But hopefully at some point are possible Cross and everybody. I thank you for tuning in for listeners. Podcast, please feel free to any follow up. Please feel free to reach out to either me or the other. Sizer and hope this this podcast provide you a lot of value. Thank you for listening all the way to the end of this podcast. I hope that you got something out of. And I know that it was a long interview, but to me, the time flew by really, really fast. And, you know, as I end this podcast, I also just want to remind you that reviews of this podcast on Apple on Spotify Google wherever you listen really mean a lot to me and can help expose this podcast of others. So I really hope I know it's sort of a hassle, but I really hope if you found value in this or in previous podcast, that you'll go out your way. Spend a minute and submit a review. I do want to thank those that have reviewed this podcast in the past. Tom Orcs. Great podcast. Awesome podcast for anyone interested in digital content marketing enjoyed Neil's unique and interesting perspective. Thank you so much, Tom. If you are to review this podcast, please make sure that you sent me a screenshot. Tag me on social media. What have you said that I can give you a shout out back? All right? And finally, when you listen to this, you might be on your way to social media marketing world. You might already be absolutely media marketing, or it might already be done. And maybe I'll see you at pod fast. But wherever we have a chance to meet, please do come up to me. Let me know that you are listening to this podcast. And who knows, I might be able to give you a special gift for doing so. So hope to meet you. I r l in real life. And until the next time, make it a great social day already