Join me for an interview with Adrian Salamunovic, Founder of Earned.co and Author of FREE PR, where we discuss all of the free things you can do to get media exposure. This includes learning how to differentiate yourself, identifying the right media targets and channels, and how to amplify and leverage the media you get after it's published by using social media and paid social. If you want to take advantage of the pre-publishing campaign for my book The Age of Influence on Amazon, make sure you buy the book here and then send me a receipt of your pre-purchase before March 17 to email@example.com Thanks!
This is the maximize your social influence. Podcast with Neil Schaeffer, where I helped sales and marketing professionals, entrepreneurs and small business owners build leverage and monetize their influence in digital and social media. Everybody kneel shaper here. Welcome to Episode 145 of the Maximize Your Social Influence. Podcast. Yes, 145. I have recently changed podcast hosting, and I'm gonna write a block post about this or I should say, record a podcast about this. But it has made it very easy for me to go through and really at it and optimize all of my previous podcasts. And now, if you go back into the library of all my podcast, you'll see that they're all properly numbered so that you can go back and make sure that you did not miss any of my episodes. Anyways, today's podcast is sponsored by The Age of Influence. My book, which is publishing March 17th on Amazon. And if you listen to the last podcast episode 144 with you, haven't you should, because I do have a pre order campaign going on with Amazon right now. Amazon is issuing this book at a very, very inexpensive price is probably gonna be the cheapest you'll ever get it. And if you buy it on Amazon and pre order, I should say, before it comes out, you're also gonna get access to two webinars that I'm gonna be doing to make sure you listen to podcasts. Episode 144 to find out all the details. And I also just want to say now that I am able to see some advanced stats with this new podcast hosting. And if you're a podcaster out there, I know you're pretty curious, but I just want to thank you. I know now that up my podcast listeners and obviously I just switched over. So the data is still coming in. But I do know that this podcast is much more international that I had thought so. I want to thank all of you. Obviously, I know my American homies are listening to this but a candidate United Kingdom I got. But Brazil, Spain, Denmark, Australia, South Africa, Japan, Konnichiwa, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Albania, Mongolia, Nigeria, Me, M R. Ghana, Colombia, Israel, Estonia, Italy, Mexico, Bolivia. I wish I could say thank you in all those different languages. Unfortunately, camp. But thank you for helping make this podcast what it is today. So today's episode I am interviewing Mr Adrian Salomon a bitch, and I just wanna make sure pronounce his name right. He is the founder of Earned Dot Co and author of the book Free PR. So part of maximizing your social influence is creating influence, right? And you know, there are many, many different channels which you can create. Influence could be a block of the YouTube channel Instagram. It could be a podcast, whatever it is. But once you are creating that community, you know, starting to generate that influence, you want to yield it and the way to yield it right? One of the ways is to really leverage the media, right. We talk about new media, but there's also traditional media. And there's also a traditional media that leverages new media that you can get access to something like Wall Street Journal has a digital version, but they also have a newspaper which many people subscribe to. So the topic that we talk about is how to leverage the media toe, amplify your brand exposure and increased credibility, which is also an important part of yielding influence. But get this without having to hire a PR agency or spend money. So some of the things we're gonna talk about learn how to differentiate yourself in clarity to find what makes you or your company interesting before you pitch the media. This is also an extremely important concept if you want to yield more influence whether to yourself or for your business, how to identify the right media targets and channels, how to pitch them, and then how to amplify and leveraged. Immediate you get after it's being published by using social media paid social hits a great topic that fits this concept of developing and yielding influence by reaching out to the media. So I hope you enjoy it. And without further ado, here's the interview Everybody, this is Neal Schaefer. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to wherever you're on the world. I'm here with another exciting episode of Maximize your Social Podcast. Today we're gonna be doing another livestream with another special guest. We're here today to talk about as something that I don't talk a lot about. And that's where I like to bring in experts how to leverage the media to amplify your brand exposure and increased credibility, no matter how much we d'oh in social media on our blog's podcast, whatever it is we can always use Maur you know, Media Maur amplification and always looking for more credibility for a brand. So I think today's conversation is going to be extremely relevant. Everybody, I with no further ado I'm gonna introduce our guests. And on my left, I'm really honored to have Adrian Salome Janovic on our show today. Adrian is the founder of earned DOT ceo, and he's also the author of the new book Free PR, And I think he's gonna share a lot of advice from this book throughout this hour long podcast. But Adrian, welcome to the show and please, you know, introduce yourself to the audience.
That's great. Great to be here. Um, yeah, my name's agent someone today I'm a serial entrepreneur. I'm an investor, an adviser to actually hundreds of companies which would love to do and recently on. And here's a shameless plug meal. Author of Free PR, a book I co authored with Cameron Harold Camera heralds the former CEO of 1 800 Got Junk he built his company from four million and revenue toe nearly 200 million in revenues using the techniques in this book. And I built a company called Canvas Pop, which we boot strapped with a couple of $1000 term ended eight figure business doing no advertising, just free PR. So this is the next journey of my life, have exited canvas pop. And now, like I said, I'm focusing on advising, authoring, speaking and investing, and that's pretty much
it. That's awesome. Adrian can't wait to hear more about the book. You know, perhaps that's where we should start. So obviously we you know, we talked beforehand and these were some of the key areas. We want to make sure we hit. Why don't we start with the 1st 1 which is learning, you know, before you pitch. And I suppose before you do anything online, you wanna have your branding very, very concise. And part of the Brandon obviously, is not only showcasing your strength, your expertise, but also differentiation right from your competitors. So how do you go about when you work with clients or at your previous business? Is differentiating yourself and clearly defining what makes you or your company interesting? What is that? You know, what should people listening to the podcast be going through in order to be able to do that?
Yeah. I mean, a couple of things. The first thing that I think I'm gonna think of differentiating yourself is Seth Godin spoke purple cow. And so that's something that I highly recommend. Everyone listen, this read or at least gives And it's an old books from many people read it. But that's the foundation of of different junior company. And if you can create a company that's that different organization big into it into its DNA from day one, your life's just gonna be a lot easier going to stand over the marketplace. You're gonna get more interest from customers, you're gonna get more interest from investors, and you're gonna be more memorable and most important, more remarkable. So people will talk about you, and when they talk about, you will know how to describe you in a way that's interesting. So I think that having a you need a value proposition is probably the most important foundational thing you could do as a is this founder, right from the start. So to answer a question, what do we do? Well, part. I have this course that I have produced called Pair Boot Camp, and before we get into any tactics, what we have is a template for what we call a unique value proposition template. And that's what I'm just saying. This is what we do. This is how we do it. This is a work of better competitors are. And most important, here's how we're different. And it's a sort of this template. And we spend a lot of time on that because if you don't get your U V P or unique value proposition right, then the rest doesn't matter. So that's how we start. We start with that, and then after we're done kind of developing the UCP and Iterating that get it right so that were interesting. We could easily describe what we do it in a sentence. Then we tighten it even more if you do what's called a high concept pitch. So for those are not familiar with what a high concept pitches. It really comes from Hollywood, so producers of movies had the halfway or executive producers of movies have a mechanism for explaining what their move Iwas in one sentence, but not even a pair, not just one sentence. So in an example, if you think of an example, if I said to you, Jaws in space all right, what movie might that could be? Aliens, Right? And so when the producer aliens was was trying to pitch aliens to people, said a picture Jaws except for in space, and they didn't get it right away, right? If you're thinking off, say, master class right, you might say Netflix for higher education, Netflix for learning or something like that, right? So you don't have to explain what master class, and you could just say we're Netflix for learning, and almost anybody will understand that, including investors, journalists, whoever. So that's where we start.
That's awesome. Really easy to understand. It sounds really easy. I'm sure it's very, very difficult for a lot of people in brands to be able to do that and get to that. You know, I've seen interesting analogy, obviously our listeners and myself, we focus a lot on social media marketing and really are browns, and our differentiators should come out and everything we do in social as well, right? Whether it's tax or whether it's visual, and that's really in social, we talk a lot about a niche, and I think that there is a, uh, there's a parallel here where the niche obviously also is some sort of competitive difference, right that we're going to either as a subject or as a visual theme that we're gonna be talking about. How do you go then, taking that pitch, too, translating it into online activities? Obviously, you know, part of those activities are preaching the media. How do you translate that? Then, too, I guess for lack of a better word. Content marketing, right?
Yeah, I mean on and I agree with you. I mean, there's Richards and niches, as the saying goes, and we really like businesses that have pictures. And I think with most powerful things about having the matches, they're not trying to boil the ocean right. You know exactly who you're going after. So when I think of nature's, I think of specific markets and understanding those markets are if we break that down one step further and this is marketing 101 We talk about archetypes or personas, right? and so the better you understand the niche for the people that you're going after and develop a persona, that sort of the second thing we do as part of this training program. We ask people that date the course to develop 123 personas. I neither niches who they are. How old are they? What do they eat? Having the behavior? It's their job. And most importantly, where do they go to consume information? So that would include social channels? Right are they are a visual. So they're on Pinterest and instagram more. Or they are looking for information data. Facebook people are they, you know, that's the type of stuff. But on top of that, we like to go really, really granular and understand what specific influencers they follow. Authors that they tend to read their books and then, furthermore, more important, what podcasts? Those That's what belongs to They read what TV shows or news channels. If they watch TV, what YouTube people do, they follow et cetera, et cetera, and the reasons Now we've got a niche. Now we've got a persona or personas, and now we understand where they go to consume information. That's when the real power earned media begins. Because now we know who to go after to get to them. That makes sense.
Yeah, I guess you also know the channels you need to be on a CZ. Well, you mentioned, you know, YouTube podcast these air two channels that are still a challenge, right for a lot of business is to be able to publish content on those channels consistently. But if that's where they're obviously their target audience is, and we know that obviously YouTube is a no brainer, but even podcasts when it's taken a while, But I really do see them becoming more and more mainstream with more, more people that I talk to you on. That's why I'm investing obviously more in the podcast. So, you know, I I assumed that would be that the next direction, then, is sort of work on the channels and content strategy.
Yeah, and so let me change the lens on that a little bit. So sure, I think what you're talking about and very intelligently is how do you produce your own content and then broadcast your own content out into the universe? Right. What channel Show used for that I'm actually, the way we approach is a bit of a reverse, a bit of a cheat. We go after the person or he has millions of listeners. You don't need to kind of cheat instead of, you know, a lot of work to set up a podcast broadcast. They record it. We're doing that right now, and it's awesome effort. But we want to flip the model on its back by parent Joe Robots podcast. And he has, you know, 30 million listeners. I didn't even have to bother building an audience. My product becomes famous overnight or close to famous overnight. So that's what earned media is all about. Is actually knowing your audience going where they already are and then going to those media sources and getting them to cover you so that you have instant exposure instead of what we're doing here with this pocket slowly building up an audience from the bottom up, which is still great by what we do is the rivers that makes sense.
Got it, Got it, Of course, cuts earned media. Obviously it's coming from someone else. Yeah, and so instead of in the past, for those of you that might remember the past instead of, you know, creating a media list of all the media outlets you wanna pitch we're now talking about because obviously the influence of media has been democratized. You're now coming up with one of the podcast, where the YouTube is one of the bloggers and putting the other list that now really transpires. Ah, lot of different contact mediums. Platforms
yes, and including the old media lists like we still go after The New York Times and TechCrunch converge and the traditional publications because I think it's important multi tiered strategy, right? You want to go after nano influencers and micro influencers, and you want to go after podcasters. And YouTube is, of course, and that's what the direction everything's moving. The wonderful thing there is when you go into those micro channels, I call them, You can go supernatural, Really. You might only have 200 people listen to the podcast, but all 200 are your exact customer, so it's very powerful, but I like to top that up on the other end. To this day, I like to get a New York Times and PC mag and a course crunch because that creates that really third party credibility and, more importantly to this day, still link just right. At the end of the day of your Web based company, a link or two from The New York Times and TechCrunch is gonna have way more late authority and driveway more traffic than 100 micro bloggers. If that makes sense, so so you don't just in one, you want to do a multi tiered strategy looking like a cake. Big players on top for credibility and for the logos on their site. The CNN. Did you do a great job on your website? If you look, you know, you see all these social that you've gone and also been working on maker, maker, influencers and bloggers. Five pastors seven.
That makes a lot of sense. And someone or do you know I'm writing a book and influence a marketing seminar to obviously engaging with all sorts of different tiers of influencers because they each bring something different? Yeah, obviously more more brands are working with nano influence or for that reason that you just gave. But hey, you know, if Kim Kardashian was to cover their beauty brand that would be awesome. So, uh, I'm curious. So I received an agent. I'm sure you receive a lot of pitches as well. So the pitches I get I mean age when you pitch me, right? So, you know, uh, podcast interviews, guest blogger post What have you and I find the mistake and this is getting into brands that reach out to influence is because they're trying to get her media's well right. I think it's the exact same concept at those influences, primarily an instagram. But what I find yours was not this way, but what I find for a lot of the pitches that I get. And a lot of that. The pictures I get from brands to work as an influencer. It's cookie cutter, right? It's not personalized, actually show examples of some pretty famous companies with some pretty embarrassing copy. Basically, it was a pitch that was copied. And then they just hand wrote my name in hand, wrote a signature literally right. And it absolutely works against you because you're reaching out to people that can make or break you. Yet you're not going the extra mile to actually personalize it for them and for their audience. I'm assuming part of what you're teaching is Is that personal Asian? I mean, would you agree that there's still a lot of that? People are just looking for the easy way out and not put it in your smile.
I can't agree more with what you're saying that the court of the entire book could support the entire course. It's a puzzle. Everything in life, really. I mean, not just in getting influencers, getting media, getting investors. Personalization is so important. So I'd rather you send 10 e mails where the first paragraph is hyper personalized. You know, I read your article. I just saw your block. I agree with you on these points. I don't agree with you on this point like I always tell people, and I have, you know, dozens and dozens of companies in the advisory circle, and I tell them, guys, if we're gonna pitch anybody that first paragraph has a hit home. It has to make them clear that in a world where everyone's using bird software and Autobots are linked in, and it's just so obvious that he's history are automated, be the purple cow in your messaging and just personally you know that I can't say any better than you did. You have to nail nail now. Now you're personalization, every communication. In fact, I'll tell you something. It's kind of funny story. Years ago, this is almost 10 years ago, I was able to get one of my companies DNA 11 feature, not just on the background that featured on C. S I New York on the TV show. And the way I did that is by doing what it called moon shots. And so I encourage entrepreneurs the first thing whenever Wanna think about right now at home or listen to this is what your moon shop is. It is it to be on Joe Rogan podcast. Is it? Is it to appear in The New York Times? Is it isn't, uh, you know, to be on a major TV show.
Throw the open a baseball Dodger Stadium whenever your moon
shot that will get you the most p. R. Right. Could be the start to be on the show. The Baxter. I don't not not thinking you persons of random. Say what if your product appeared on X one would move the needle the most right for me CS in New York was something I know Moonshot and the way I did it rather than sending an email or sending a tweet or, you know, being something lazy, I wrote a letter, actually hand wrote a letter and send it to your attention. And Zucker, who's the executive producer up, See a sign, right? But that letter, like lick this envelope, understand and put it in the mail and then forgot about it. Well, couple of months later, go by and my phone rings and I'm in Florida at the time, I remember very vividly the phone rings in its executive producer, CS. I wasn't Anthony, but it was his executive producer and she was like, We written and this is a have already written. The episode was saying, Wanted rent an episode about your your idea, your art. And now we just need some samples. And I thought it was a joke, to be honest with you, but you want to see the episode? You can search DNA 11 DNA, 11 C. S in New York. You could see it on YouTube. Yeah, Anyways, two points. If you don't ask, you don't get if you don't go in and take those rest of those crazy moon shots you might have to do 100 Moonshots. But if you get one, it'll change your life. And for us, that happened when we were in front of a 1,000,000 people on C s. I write to you when you do these Moonshots, do them differently. Send a gift. Send something a letter, put a letter in a bottle, send somebody cupcakes that are personalized with letters. Most don't want to take rest of hate being rejected. I guess what? You're gonna have to be rejected. Whether you're reaching out the influencers, partners, investors or the media. You're gonna have to do it 100 times and failed 99 to get that one. Yes. And that's what the book is really all about.
Yeah, and I have it in my book as well, giving brands advice on how to reach out to influence. It's a sale. You're gonna identify 2000 people. I don't know. You know what numbers you give out during during your classes, but you're gonna It's gonna be hundreds if not thousands of people and it's a funnel, right? And not everyone's gonna respond. I mean, people are are doing different things. What have you and Yeah, you're right that the conversion is gonna be low, but obviously that one conversion should bring ah, heck of a lot of value. So you have a really interesting point, though, about the letters and you extend out cars and all these service is that say, Hey, you should go old school because that still gets delivered and it helps differentiate you. And I know I mean, that's amazing experience. Your CS in New York. I grew up here in L. A. And I was in a punk rock and alternative rock, and my favorite band was a man called X. I'm gonna be to know them, but I remember I was going. I saw them when I was in high school going to conscious the Roxy and whiskey. And I remember writing a letter to Xing saying, Hey, I'm gonna be going with my friend. She's really down. This is her favorite song that it would be awesome. If you could dedicate a song to her, it would make it would mean a lot to her on. She did right, And that's where I realized the power of actually that. You know, that was like a moon shot, per se, but the power of actually, yeah, if other people have done it, I don't know if they would have been successful, but people just don't do it right. They don't take that extra step. You don't sort of, you know, pursue that dream or personalized or whatever it may be. But I'm curious. And I don't want to put a date on this podcast because then it some people may say, Oh, why you sharing a podcast that you post last week? You get all sorts of people out there, But you know today, right? Agent, you have helped companies a. Yourself. I've done a lot of outreach on different channels, would you say? And obviously it's different for every business, every person. Are there channels today for those listening that you recommend, they invest a little bit more on when they do outreach. For instance, no one's reading your emails anymore, But if you send him on Instagram Direct message or Twitter direct message, you have a much better chance or forget all that. You should be sending letters is is there any and I know it's not. You know there's no cookie cutter approach any of this. But do you see any trends or you know what you see, lady, that works for any advice you would give.
Yeah, for sure. It's a great question. So you hit the nail on the head with the direct message thing. In fact, I've seen more and more success with Major Major major influence is getting back to me, even if they don't follow me on Instagram de Ems and Instagram are very conference like. Nobody thinks that the infuser is going to read it when they're just humans like us now, instead of having 10 requests in their inbox ABBA 400. But somebody's standing them and using them with their board at the airport. Whatever. You'd be surprised your messages has a very good chance of being read. So d m. Where influences the entities that I'm obviously for journalists. They actually really like using Twitter. Ah, lot of Twitter open. I'm not
a Well. Yeah,
right. And you can see when they ran it. It's fantastic. So I would say that the latest, latest and greatest is Twitter. Twitter? Ah, direct messaging.
I will say the Instagram gm really is powerful. And the Twitter just you know, a few days ago, I actually had an editor. Well, writer, I should say from PC mag Reach out for me. When journalists reach out to you on Twitter, they have a timeline. And maybe if you've ever been, if the media's ever about you, they have a timeline and I missed the deadline. It was a day where I wasn't really active on Twitter. Got hold of it the next day, and the opportunity was gone. So part of it is also, if you're going to use these channels do outreach, you really need to monitor them s so that when especially right, journalists on the using very, very tight deadlines and they're gonna you're just like someone else. And if you're out there
totally right and we have a story in the book about another story, quick story is we had this piece of art. We have a company called 11 that I mentioned earlier. We gotta call eight o'clock at night. We had done a charity project with Elijah Wood from Lord of the Rings, and he was on a press things months after we did the events, we weren't expecting anything like this. Eight o'clock. My phone rings and it's producer for Conan O'Brien said. Need some some beer or some footage of Elijah with his artwork. He's gonna talk about it on the show, and they record. Lucky you don't realize. Is that according to string the day So they needed it. It needed in the morning they needed by 11 a.m. Pacific time, our remembers tell together something in L. A. And so are in New York. I don't recall, but regardless, it had I not been around available at 8 p.m. When I got this message, responded quickly, would have missed that opportunity. And so whenever you're working with influencers or the media, whatever you have to be available, like you said already did miss gigantic opportunities. And I've heard many horror stories where founders are busy, the major publication reaches out to you and you're not there. You're not responsive working 9 to 5 and you miss the opportunity. So, yes, timeliness is almost everything with the media. And let me have something there, too, that we're talking about when you're when you're picturing the media are working with the media. What I tell people to do is to think that we work for the media and not the other way around. So this is a major thing like I look at the media is almost I don't see my boss, but I work for them. My job is to be available to them when they need me to be available to help bring ValuJet their audience to help them create a great story or narrative. And if you go in with that attitude of servitude, you're gonna get so much more from the media over and over again, as opposed to, you know, I think I could schedule, you know, are busy and playing hard to get our or just not being available. So So that is certainly very well, my career's always working for you. Not like I'm doing you a favor. You're doing me a favor by interviewed me. That hasn't always been my attitude.
Yeah, that's really great. Advice is something Like I said, I obviously focused more on the social media side of things. But for instance, you know, tools, vendors reaching out. Hey, you know we love you could talk about our tool will give you a 30 day free trial so I could go to the website and at the same 30 day free trial, Right? If you want to work with a journalist or someone that you want to get coverage from, why would not you go out your way and offer them as much value as possible that you're saying, Adrian, I'm I'm really surprised so few people do this. They should say we want to give you a lifetime access we just would love if you became a user and give us your feedback. And obviously, if you like there to be great if you shared it with your audience. But, you know, we just want to begin a relationship. And I think that oftentimes, businesses I can't relate this to human relationships and really converted into the fact that you're trying to become a friend with someone, right? Yeah. And when you want to become friends, you're not gonna ask them to buy you a drink. You're gonna buy them a drink to start the conversation. That's right. It's just a very common sense. But that so many people, maybe it's because they have deadlines they don't have the budget. They're used to working this way. But I do think that these days eight. Your Honor, I don't know. You've been doing this for a while. Obviously, I do think that those that have influence and obviously I'm looking more at the influence of Mark inside, just more more people reaching out to them. And they're in a position of power where if you're gonna lowball them, they're not even gonna reply. Right? So I think that the concept of adding value being their friend is just more and more important as more and more businesses have have realized what they need to do to get her media coverage.
So we're talking about It's interesting you're talking about from the influencer sort of lens. I'm talking about more traditional media PR reach, but the same day at the same time, Who's on the other and human beings, right, Pete, that families have schedules, they have their busy. There are a lot of noise coming at them, and you're right. The best way to stand up is by almost again tryingto be empathetic. I think you have empathy, is really key. Understands people getting hundreds of emails of hundreds of messages standing out by offered value. First, by being different with your value by being generous with their value and sort of having, let's say it the most important thing, an attitude of civility and attitude of saying here, I'm here to help you. I want to help you do it with a few of my product not just because I want to explore different product, but I think it's useful to you. I think it's gonna bring down here audience. I'm happy to give you a free track. I'm also happy to give, like a prize away that would give you a giveaway and talk about how we could partner as opposed to. Here's my product. Here's my leg. Let me know if you if you're willing to cover me, that's not gonna work these days. So So I think we're on the exact same page. I leave a valiant leader of empathy and do it 1000 times. People forget 900 knows or 999 knows if necessary. It is so the check to success. There's no silver bullet.
It's funny, just from a blogger perspective, you know? Hey, New Infographic would love if you put it on your block on this page. And so these are people that have done a little bit of research using tools, and they realize that certain pages have certain value, right? If they have gone the extra mile and say, Hey, I already I know that you require minimum 1500 were blocked. Plus, I already wrote your block post. It's right here. And I realize that your competitors who outranks from Google is are using an infographic. This is Wait, why? You may wanna publish one as well, because that is something that Google wait, you know what I mean? Just taking the extra mile and making it easy. And really, I didn't value, and I think that's gonna be one of the big takeaway from today's conversation. But obviously we have more to talk about. I'm just gonna get back to our our Jenna. I know we've already covered some of what we were going to cover, you know, later on, so identifying the right media targets and channels and how to pitch them. So I think we've already talked about some of this. What if you don't know who your ideal targets are. What advice would you give people?
Yeah, there's a couple things that we do, so the 1st 1 will go from least amount of lifting and simplest to more complex and more precise. So the first and easiest thing to do is talk to your customers, right? So let's say you're just starting off and you have sort of an idea who your customers are. You have five friends or people around supposed to that, you know, would be the type of people that would consumer product or service just go up to them and have a conversation. And that the questions I'd like to ask our straight up, what dogs do you follow when it comes to my product, right Of what influencers do you follow? What books have you read around the subject matter? We're trying to get their heads, understand where they go to consume information. Then we can always ask you spend more time on Facebook or instagram Or do you watch TV? Do you read physical newspaper? Some people still doing the baby boomer market, So you just want to recover those little nuggets right now, the way we tend to do. It is we tend to because most of my clients already have market fender has to undergo wave. Some of the few 1000 plus customers is getting a little micro surveys. I love using type form, but you conserve a monk here, whatever. And the questions are what block the same thing My blog's. You listen to what influences us into what authors do you follow what podcast you listen to. And if you get 100 responses, you're gonna see some patterns, right? And we're looking for that repetition. We're looking for the same names. They're coming up more than twice or more three times. And that aggregate allows us the creative persona. It allows us to really understand get ideas of people who may have not even heard up that some names are gonna come out of that survey and some publications that you haven't even heard off. And then you're gonna go investigate. Those publications will figure out a way to work with them. It could be affiliate. It could be. I prefer for you to approach them home like editorial front. Say, look, I can contribute articles, right? It was a very powerful way, Thio get consistent feedback that we haven't talked about, but +11 Amazingly, if you find out that people read a magazine or something, reforms is become a contributor, which is a little bit harder to get in. But once you're in that, you can contribute on a regular basis, which is incredible value, or just get a review for your product to a partnership. There's all sorts of things you could do with this information.
Yeah, the power of the survey of just asking your customers on. In some cases, even asking your employees if you have a large company is so powerful, you know you get such such inside such data. I'm surprised more companies don't do this. I'm surprised I don't get more survey request. You know, it's funny brands reaching out to me as an influence. Or, for instance, there's one men's fashion brand that you know. I applied to some of their campaigns. I wasn't accepted yet. They sent me a survivor. Plus they want to know, how do we make our retail stores more Instagram Mobile? Right? It's etcetera. So it really is something powerful that you know more more businesses should be doing for for a lot of reasons
and beyond the survey. If you don't do either of those, although I highly recommend that you do survey, you can often just look at your data right. Google Analytics now has demographic all data. If you have a Facebook page, you could really look at who's following you already and negligent idea humanity customers by leash. Ever understanding who you're following is all that's available in Facebook insights and beyond that, what I like to do is if you have an email us than most of us, half of thousands, about tens of thousands of people on the email list, there are all sorts of service is that allow you to upload those lists. And then they'll use that those email addresses to match them to demographic all data. So there's a There's a couple of companies that don't offer that service, and so that's the date away. That's the really lazy quick way you know it's available to all of us if you don't have access to survey, and if you don't have anyone to be one of those, at least talk to 5 to 10 year clients and just get a feel for it. It's better than going in black,
right? Indeed. Awesome advice. So now that you have way started from the beginning of obviously the branding, a differentiation, the elevator pitch and now we've built our list out, figured out who want to target, and we start getting one or two published pieces of her media. What's the next up there? Wanted to talk about amplifying and leveraging the media that you get. So what do you recommend it? I'm sure most businesses are just like, Yes, we did it and they think that's the end goal when obviously it shouldn't be the angle. Right
now. It's just the beginning. I mean, so So I'm getting PR first, always like a fly on. The 1st 2 hits are the hardest and most of all, give up before they get there. So in my experience, takes 3 to 6 months from the moment you decide. But hey, I want to do this PR thing myself. And even if you hire an agency, people take a little bit so much faster and easier the matter why it's fun and taking 3 to 6 months to really start landing the media that you want to get the Tier one. The business insiders. The TechCrunch is the New York Times, right, because it takes time. It just takes time. And then once you get those logos or you get the land, those media think that's the beginning. That's what you want to really step on the pedal and keep the momentum going. And what happens is a venture. The flywheel starts to spin on its own. You become a source. You become sort of the perceived leader in your space. If it's a category and before you know the media starts a protein, you, the partner start reaching out to you that you could never get front of. And I've seen this happen time and time again. So those that sort of commit and build through that 3 to 6 month window and start to get that media. That's what you want to step on the pedal. So how do you step on the pedal is the next question, But one thing is a sushi in the media right away. You want to put that logo on your website, so if we land an article in, there's a thin signer I've seen in business insider and you could leak in a new windows there. The next thing you want to do right away is publicly thank the journalist and a share the article. So you would say thanks to journalists, a great article on our we're so proud of you featured at business Insider. Here's a link to our article and you want to share that, maybe even pen into your twitter You don't just want to amplify. And thirdly, this is something very, very few people know about very few companies. D'oh! But but that we've seen really huge results on. So it was a really big act. So let's just say you get your company's future in Forbes or Fortune. It's going to organically get a few 1000 hits and then it's gonna start to die down as the site greats. More content, right? You want to dio, This is really cool is you want to actually run Facebook advertising, for example, to that article and not just directly to the article, but using a service called Snip Lee s and I p dot L y my meth 1,000,000. I have no business relation with them. I just love what they're doing right? And so snip, please. Like Billy, it's a short with the link shorter except for does one really, really cool thing it does is it lets you send them to that Forbes article. But the bottom you're going to see your euro link to your site just floating there featured so that they could read the article. They get that third party, you know, validations of Forbes alive like the solution. That's why I could run the ad would be the Forbes article. Now I'm ready to buy a click the link and they go to your site. So it's a great way to close the loop on that amazing hack. I won't name the company, but one of the top top couples advise with the biggest fundraisers on Kickstarter ever used this technique Thio, Brother Brandon, Too tense abilities. So that's something that I want you guys to think about. How you could you simply or use your earned media and repurpose It is 70 paid Thio can amplify it over and over again. And then the last thing is, the Forbes folks are gonna notice that and that Forbes article got 50,000 uses of 2000 years ago. The other ones? Wow, we should probably do more interviews with these guys. They're getting a lot of attention. So it just It's a nice way to kind of feed the ecosystem and get that momentum. Lawyer that flight artificially Kind of, but not organically. Same time.
Yeah, and obviously they are looking at the data when they see that an article resonates. Still, we'll have you back, right? It's really funny. Early on in my career as a marketer, I was on Michael Skelton, whose from socially examiner. This is one of the most influential media outlets in social media marketing. Happy Hour Podcast. And he's like Neo and I was about to come up with a new book. It's like Neil, you must be at times podcast. I'm like, No, this is actually it's actually first podcast I've ever been, Hon. It's so once you're on this podcast, you're going to get tons of invites, other podcasts. And indeed that happens. Right? So a CZ you say. But once you're on it, you want to amplify the heck out of it. For all those reasons that you gave right, it's going to give it its good for your publicity. It's also good for your relationship with that media outlet, and that's interesting. Snippet simply is a tool that's been around a while and their other tools that that around that there's a lot of their some systems that will sort of block that technology from coming on your website. But it's good to hear I've had success with tools like that. It's good to hear that your customer obviously was extremely successful, and I, you know, it comes down. Obviously, I'm sure the amplification, the relevance of their branding on that little piece of the bottom there There's a lot of things that go into that. But yeah, it's great advice for everybody. You know, Agent, we've covered a lot. What are what are the gaps? I mean, is that Is that pretty much it? It sounds really easy, but I know it's about getting a process. And the person the research, obviously the infrastructure of the research, the actual you know, personalized outreach. All of this is extremely time consuming, and you mentioned 3 to 6 months. So you know your book free PR and your system is all about how you could do this yourself about hiring an agency. On the other hand, you're already saying this is going to require a lot of work if you know, if doing this for 3 to 6 months is not worth the time, that's when you may. You may wanna consider working with an agency. Is there a stage where you would say, if you think it's just gonna take too much time, you know, knowing what you need to do. But if you just don't have the time to do what you should hire a nation, you did. You ever have those conversations with clients? With business is,
sometimes there's no choice. You have to hire an agency air. No, if you But we have seen very little, very few instances where people are happy with their PR agencies. Yeah, let's talk about that for a second. This is a reality, the industry, and that's the reason we about this book. It's because Weah's founders off a nine figure companies have higher periods, of course, is the first thing we did, and over and over I've seen this 100 times is 90% salary where these appearances typical charge retainer fees on a much
waste. What sets off? Hired PR eases beef. All right, So what's the deal
Exactly that we're starting a decade. I'm trying to dissect it. No carriages. He starts off one day. They just they don't write. They want a creative agency and they usually start off really good. It's a founder who's very passionate, very well connected, the media. And then, you know, they have three or four clients in there getting a ton of success of their publicist. More independent. A person like you or I were really passion our business. And we don't have a 300 employees, right? There was one person with some support people around us, and we're doing amazing craft level of discipline work with a few clients. Well, success breeds more success. So what happens is we have five clients of those five clients start telling all their friends and peers. But now we have 20 clots, and here's the problem. You have to start scaled, so we start hiring junior publicists, and then we're still going into the meetings because they want to meet with us, and we you show them our past the logo. So the period to see principle of the founders. Usually well, the partners come in. They show a wonderful deck. The decks are always amazing. So right, hundreds of articles, lots of logo's. It's really exciting stuff. And then this contract, it's signed the contracts, usually multi month fixed retainer per month, usually 5 to 10. 15 20,000 could be anywhere from 5 to 15,000 more per month. Minimum three months. Commitment. Because that's the ramp up period. That's it Will tell you right then, Before you know it, you're three months in. But here's what happens. They can't as the principal, they're out there being the face of the brand. They've not very 23 year old intern building the list of doing the pitching. And although they're being guided and they're being helped, they might have some contacts in the media. Those quickly get exhausted and remember that that enter even that part of the PR firm is not as passionate about you or your company. Your mission. Your why you is the founder of the most passionate spokesperson for your company, and so what we do? What we say is do the same thing but bring it in house because this is kind of happens over and over PR firms that'll scale well, you're not being customer one of 20. So they could only give you so much band with. And they're used to customers coming and going every three months. That's what they have minimum retainers and all that stuff. So So it's a broken system. And so at least the dust you do is you hired the same 23 other injured. Or you grab that same person from your own team that may be eager and what we're looking for. Somebody with hustle. That's all we want. Somebody who's really pretty articulate can write a decent me now and can follow a process. But the one thing we cannot teach his hustle, So it's gonna be the kind of person. And that's why we usually recommend hiring people sales backgrounds because at the end of the day, PR earned media is a sales process. As much as anything we're going out there, you're making friends with building relationships were getting told no a lot. So we're looking for that hustler. It's free. It's a lack of a better term, and you grab that person, you could get them to read my book right or you can get them to sign up for my core. So this is Yeah, it's a bit of an infomercial, but it's coming from my heart. And then we can turn that person into your own house publicist on. Then you want to pay them retainer fees that you essentially own that resource, they're focused on you and you on Lee. And yeah, if you want to find out more about that's earned, Doc Poe, if you guys want to show that I would love you no sign of anyone that thinks that will bring value to. So yeah, that's the idea. The idea has turned your best employee in your in house publicist and get PR 365 days a year instead of doing these ad hoc contracts of carriages.
Yeah, that's great advice and thank you. You answer a lot of ah lot of doubt that I sort of had about the industry. I suppose if you were to find those companies early on in their growth, when it is just a solo printer operation and they only have one other client, they've already had a lot of success. I guess there might be ways in which you could be successful, but for most of them yeah, you can't scale those relationships which that published springs or the process hard to scale unless you train those right people. But that's not what publicists are. Our that's not their core competency. Write something
and don't own those relations. Right with Starr gave Asli. We're going now. You have the license. Those journalists, O'Neill has his worships with the people at Forbes and fortune. You can text them or e mail them are called them directly. The policy is almost always going to guard those contacts somewhere behind their fire. Also, there's that distance between us, the client, and so you want to own those relations. And it's a long it's a longer play game to bring Pierre in house. But whether you're a two person company here, found her and you want to learn this or whether you're 100% company, just want to bring it in house. Uh, that's something that we, but we'll all the
time. And it's similar in the world of influence of marketing. Instead of using agencies actually bringing in houses well, right, and it's really a different form of media relations. Influences are the new media and digital media, So it's that same. You know your product better than anyone. You know how to converse with these people better than anyone. You should be more not to rot it. Why not keep it in house and just hired us people in training? So I think that and more, more of all this is coming in house, right? Instead of going external for a lot of various reasons. One of them, well, many of them you mentioned. But that's really great advice. So curious you brought up like Forbes. And there's a lot of people in the marketing world I know we have a lot of market resisting this that are we're starting to see your bloggers that maybe we followed that warrant. You know, Gary Vaynerchuk. But we're starting to see more more of these people on Forbes or on ink. Oh, on some of these magazines that 10 years ago were ver ver and limited in terms of opportunities for for bloggers and businesses. What has changed and what advice do you give you? I had the chance to be a contributor for because they have something called the Coaches Council. I'm sure if you were with us and in all transparency, if you see someone the coaches comes, it is. It is paid. You pay? A. I believe it's 1/4 beefy, and for that quarterly feed has a lot of benefits. One of them is that if it's approved by the editorial board, you can get published. Self is right. So is that basically what's happening with all these media? They see it as another you know, waited t monetize. Or what's the scoop of What's the advice?
Yes. Oh, there's there's essentially three tiers. Wait, So when you don't have a following yet, sometimes you have to get the 1st 1 and you may have to pay it in depth. I believe it's the Young Entrepreneurs Network, or I yell that has the program. I believe that's manager are you might be E or why you don't know which. But for $2000 you can join the fort one of Ford's council, so they have everything from finance that agencies and whatever. And for $2000 you get a guaranteed exposure article now, that doesn't mean you have to. They help you write the article. So you're sharing your expertise with the network, and those typically don't get a ton of use. But now at least, that you fill your first by your kind of cheating a little bit you're buying that has seen in Forbes, right? You create a great article, share that article. That kind of gives you that first foothold when you have no credibility. So so actually recommend doing that. I don't think it's a bad idea so that you get a lot of other benefits. So
with the editorial and from experience, they do have editorial. It does vet it. You're not gonna be, I mean, from topic idea to the final content, and they're not gonna take it today In published tomorrow. It is a several week process up.
No, you're exactly right. And it is It's absolutely vetted, right? And you've a writer and I'm in no way affiliated with them at all. But I have sent a few my clients that way just to get them their first trip contributor article, but has second Level's where I really want people to focus on this. Where once you've shown some value some expertise, is becoming a real contributor to Forbes, and that's a little harder to get. You know, you see those bigger name entrepreneurs, but there's less than large entrepreneurs that have these sort of monthly or quarterly contribution articles. They're not paying for their just great writers. They have great content to share, and that's really where you want to be specifically. If you're in the consulting game or you're in any type of any type of game where you want it to reach a wider audience, let's be honest. We all have blog's. But how many views do we get? Right? If you could be on forms as Forbes is your blogging platform, you're gonna get a lot more eyes on it and a lot more credibility. So So I love it when you get a contributor status, but you've got to start somewhere, right? Very few people are gonna go from zero to be a on actual contributor, and the third and last level, which is the top tier, is when you end up, you're not a contributor, but forms approaches you just saying we want to write about your company and it's an actual journalists that were so Forbes doing a feature on your company, and it ends up in the magazine and online. And that's their Havana, right? That's when you want to get to the top of the game, and that's what we teach. But if you could get into any one of those levels at the start, you know more and more we're seeing a lot of publications opening up the back end of their sights. Huffington Post started this trend. I think imposes really user contributed content. That's why anybody could become a Huffington Post journalist, right? But But it works. It's great content, and it's, ah, sort of hybrid system.
On that second tier, though, what would be your advice of those that want to become regular contributors without paying as a stepping stone?
Yeah, so the first step is, you know, it's a bit of a cat trying to You're gonna have to create your first block post that you don't have one already can. That's assuming already. Do have a block post. Look for the one that had the most signaling. So what do I mean by that? Look for one had a lot of comments on shares what you are one of the most visits. Data will tell him the data doesn't lie. You're gonna see, Okay, my eight block Pollstar thana likes I like using lengthen because Lincoln has some built in amplification to it, uh, where people couldn't comments and likes. And you want to three articles on the right short form, Whatever you want to write that you think is relevant to your audience, right? And then get as many people to like it. Comment? It's possible then. Now you have your sort of prototype. Now, you wanna go to the editors of these publications, Whatever industry publications gonna get from Children and say, Look, I'm not a professional writer, but I would love to contribute articles about my 10 years of experience of doing X Lanzi. And here's an example of an article I wrote recently got no 180 lights and 40 comments and and here's a link, and then at least they see that you're able to write. So the look of that article mostly what kind of provocation it got. It was a well written and that's your foot in the door, right? So I got to start somewhere you can't really just thought to the editor, forwards or fortune or eight or whatever. And just say, Hey, I'm a great writer trusting that, Let let me contribute article they're gonna want to see examples on that's that. That's the key. That's it's really that simple.
So it's showing him some social proof and use LinkedIn or, you know, dig around on Forbes Aaron to find the editor, reach out to them and go from there so that it's ah, you know, very similar to the advice that of getting your media in general. Ah, microcosm of that, I assume. But great advice. So, agent, you've given us a lot about you. A lot of little tip. It's here. So you obviously are the author of Free PR. Tell us in a minute you about the book, Why you wrote it. What's it about? I know that you know, we pretty much have a good feel from interviewing the last 50 minutes. Anything else you can add about the book or or suggestions?
Yeah, well, let's talk about real quick is relevant to both of us and relevant to a lot of people. Listening right now is book as a Plaza marketing platform. I mean, I waited way too long to write my first book. I'm really glad I did. You could speak about this too. I think it's one of If you didn't write a book and find the band, but at the time to write a book, I highly recommend it because it you're not gonna make money from your book. We still almost 10,000 books so far. But you don't really make money from that side of it. Where you really make the benefit is being to do stuff like this. So once you have your book ready, then you get invited onto podcast. It's easier to get speaking gigs, and it really is a business card that you can use at the expertise in that one trend that I've been seeing. I'm gonna predict we're gonna see this more in 2020 is where businesses published their own books and use them as a marketing platform. So this would be something that hub spots done drift. If you want to drift calm, I'm not affiliated with them, but I really like them. I think they're onto something with the Siri's of books they use and was under distribute. The books, even sell the books that give them away A lot of conferences, but that's that's a trend I think we're gonna see A lot is not just individual brands like us, but actual cos writing books that are thought pieces and they're valuable and it's a great way to get hurt. Media.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Ah, lot of the companies that I work with. There's always this concept of customer education that we need to educate our customer because then they'll understand why we're better than the competitors, right? And the book is the great way to do that. Now, for those of you that, honestly, I'm gonna be interviewing the Constantine from publish Isar, which is a a really innovative platform that basically allows you to crowdsource funds to write your book, and it gives you exposure to potential publishers. It is the platform that I used thio write and publish the Age of Influence, which is gonna be published with HarperCollins March aging. Another reason I'm having you on it. I'm personally interested in your techniques for my upcoming book. I couldn't agree more. You know, a book gives you something to talk about. It is a big fat business card, but once you have a book, people pay attention. Just like me being on. Michael starts his podcast. Once you have a book, especially if you do any speaking but really any business. It is custom. Education is something you could be behind. You want to educate your customers. You want to get them to the next level and see the world from your businesses perspective, and this gives you the ability to do. And it's so easy now, toe right, something you can hire editors that used to work at major publishers. Higher graphic designers get it up on Amazon and you're done. And yet it's not money making. It's all about the credibility and building that platform. And and I tell people, you know Hey, we'll let you speak. You can sell your books, the back of the room and I don't want you know, if there's my target audience, the audience right? I don't want to sell them a $25 book. I'd rather give them the book for free because they're they're obviously the Patriot just worked a lot more than the $25 of the book and and even if you only have a $5 product, if you think a customer lifetime value, they buy this product average X times a year for how many years, you know you get the picture. So I completely agree with you on that. So free PR. I'm assuming Adrian that we can find that at the Amazon and all the great book places that we shop out.
Yeah, and free pr book dot com. If you wanna go there by contact information's there, Cameron like co authors, Contact information's there, and you can sign up the training and look at our profile. Everything's at three p R book.
Okay, so the training that you've talked about as well I wanted, I wanted youto give us a pitch on that because you've obviously brought it up, and it sounds like it's a great resource for those that might be interested in it. That's also going to be free pr dot com.
Yeah, you could just sign up for the training there and good strategy session and talk to us. It seemed perfect.
And does your training have a branded name to it?
Yeah, it's called PR boot camp PR bootcamp. Yeah, it's very kind of fight club. It's very invite only or very, very specific and who we allow it to the program. So you could only find it at actually free pr book dot com. And then everything's there and it's getting it apply to do the training. Not just anybody can get in on. So once you're in there, what we do is we just train companies on how to bring up your in house so they have to have any good fit. Not every company should or can do this, but we know when we talked up. So we set up a strategy session usually and just talk about learning about you, your business, See if you're fit and build from there. That
sounds awesome, Major. And hey, you know, I want to thank you so much. We're sort of at the end of the hour here, agent, You know, once again, thank you so much. This is gonna provide a lot of value. I love doing these live streams and then obviously repurposed in the content because it's just it's evergreen advice on. I think with these democratization of media influence just becomes more more relevant content over time. Actually, eso Hopefully you're gonna be helping out a lot of businesses through through this need any any final words before we under broadcast?
Well, that's really it. I really enjoyed it. We covered a lot. And I hope, you know, at the very least, people get value from a book. That's all. We wrote the book. It's gonna look a gift to the universe to make sure people learn about how to do this and go out there and get that media and earn. It was Oliver.
That's that earned media. You have to earn it right. It's not. It doesn't happen magically, so make sure you check out free PR book dot com. You check out Adrian's book Free PR. You reach out to him on Social or go to free pr book dot com. Where always contact information is and you know, I look forward to hearing back from those those success stories of people that are listening to this that work with you. So, Adrian, once again, thank you very much. It's been awesome having you on the show. We'll keep in touch and best of luck with everything So I hope you thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Adrian there. I also want to thank you all for all of the reviews that you've been putting up on Apple podcasts, I guess which which it's now called on Spotify stitcher on Google Play wherever you can. Listen to my podcast. I want to share another review. This comes from the Constantine. Lee is actually one of the founders executives of Publish Isar. And for those of you that don't know, Publish Izer is the platform for which I crowdfunded the idea really test marketed. The idea for the age of influence leaves a great guy. You thinking about writing a book? There's gonna be a podcast episode of an interview that ended with him, which I share my entire journey of. Why use their platform and how it helped me land a publishing deal on how it really helped bring this book The age of influence, the life. But the said fresh new insights that work. Neal takes a fresh approach to providing real insight that he knows to work. This is not regurgitated content for Neil to push a lot of content. Instead, it's clear Neil puts Israel tips and tricks to grow, influence visibility and maximize your social great the thank you so much. And if you haven't so far, wherever in the world any review that you can write really helps. Not only me, but it helps other people discover this podcast. As you know, that's the way the algorithms work. So thank you. Really thank you all for listening. And for every car in the world make it a great social day, but by everybody.