Welcome to the new website for the Your Digital Marketing Coach podcast!
Jan. 30, 2020

145: Free PR: How to Leverage the Media to Amplify Your Brand Exposure and Increase Credibility without Spending Money [Adrian Salamunovic Interview]

145: Free PR: How to Leverage the Media to Amplify Your Brand Exposure and Increase Credibility without Spending Money [Adrian Salamunovic Interview]

Join me for an interview with Adrian Salamunovic, Founder of Earned.co and Author of FREE PR, where we discuss all of the free things you can do to get media exposure. This includes learning how to differentiate yourself, identifying the right media targets and channels, and how to amplify and leverage the media you get after it's published by using social media and paid social. If you want to take advantage of the pre-publishing campaign for my book The Age of Influence on Amazon, make sure you buy the book here and then send me a receipt of your pre-purchase before March 17 to neal@nealschaffer.com Thanks!

Key Highlights

[02:26] Introduction of Podcast Guest, Adrian Salamunovic

[06:38] Book To Read To Learn About Differentiating Yourself

[07:28] What Earned.co Does

[09:49] Taking Pitch And Translating It Into Online ACtivities

[12:08] Working On The Channels And Content

[16:20] Why Personalization Is Important

[21:41] Adrian's Advice On Sending Messages Through Instagram And Twitter

[23:07] Timeliness Is Everything

[26:27] The Concept Of Adding Value

[28:40] What To Do If You Don't Know Your Ideal Targets

[29:34] Performing Micro Surveys

[31:30] Leveraging Google Analytics

[32:47] Recommendation On Amplifying And Leveraging The Media Received

[34:35] Hack On How To Organically Get Hits

[38:19] When To Hire Agency?

[39:08] The Deal Of Hiring PR Agencies

[45:13] Three Tiers On Paid Media

[48:01] Stepping Stone To Becoming Regular Contributors

[50:06] Adrian's Book

[53:09] Connect With Adrian

Notable Quotes

  • I think that having a unique value proposition is probably the most important foundational thing you can do as a business founder, right from the start.
  • There's riches in niches as the saying goes. And we really like businesses that have niches. And I think one of the most powerful things about having a niche is you're not trying to boil the ocean, right? You know exactly who you're going after.
  • What I tell people to do is to think that we work for the media, not the other way around. y job is to be available to them when they need me to be available to help bring value to their audience to help them create a great story or narrative. And if you go in with that attitude of servitude, you're going to get so much more from the media over and over again.
  • I think that that concept of adding value and being their friend is is just more and more important, as more and more businesses have have realized what they need to do to get their media coverage.
  • The best way to stand out is by almost, again, trying to be empathetic, I think being having empathy is really key, understanding people getting hundreds of emails, or hundreds of messages, standing out by offering value first, by being different with your value by being generous with your value and sort of having, let's say, the most important thing, an attitude of servitude.
  • Just taking the extra mile and making it easy, and really adding that value.
  • At the end of the day, PR earned media is a sales process as much as anything, right going out there, you're making friends, you're building relationships are getting told no a lot. 
  • You know your product better than anyone, you know how to converse with these people better than anyone, you're you should be more natural at it, why not keep it in house and just hire those people and train them?
Transcript

Neal Schaffer:

This is the maximize your social influence podcast with Neal Schaffer, where I help sales and marketing professionals, entrepreneurs and small business owners, build, leverage and monetize their influence in digital and social media. Hey, everybody, Neal Schaffer here. Welcome to Episode 145. Of the maximize your social influence podcast. Yes, 145. I have recently changed podcast hosting. And I'm going to write a blog post about this, or I should say, record a podcast about this. But it has made it very easy for me to go through and really edit and optimize all of my previous podcasts. So now if you go back into the library of all my podcasts, you'll see that they are all properly numbered, so that you can go back and make sure that you did not miss any of my episodes. Anyways, today's podcast is sponsored by the age of influence my book, which is publishing, march 17, on Amazon. And if you listen to the last podcast, Episode 144, if you haven't, you should, because I do have a pre order campaign going on. With Amazon. Right now, Amazon is issuing this book at a very, very inexpensive price, it's probably going to be the cheapest you'll ever get it. And if you buy it on Amazon and preorder, I should say before it comes out, you're also going to get access to two webinars that I'm going to be doing. So make sure you listen to podcast episode 144, to find out all the details. And I also just want to say, now that I am able to see some advanced steps with this new podcast hosting. And if you're a podcaster out there, I know you're pretty curious. But I just want to thank you. I know now that of my podcast listeners, and obviously, I just switched over so the data is still coming in. But I do know that this podcast is much more international than I had thought so I want to thank all of you. Obviously I know my American homies are listening to this. But UK, Canada, United Kingdom I got but Brazil, Spain, Denmark, Australia, South Africa, Japan, Konichiwa, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Albania, Mongolia, Nigeria, Myanmar, Ghana, Colombia, Israel, Estonia, Italy, Mexico, Bolivia. I wish I could say thank you in all those different languages. Unfortunately, I can't. But thank you for helping make this podcast what it is today. So today's episode, I am interviewing Mr. Adrian Salamone KOVITCH. And I just want to make sure I pronounce his name, right. He is the founder of earned.co, and author of the book free PR, so part of maximizing your social influence is creating influence, right. And, you know, there are many, many different channels which you can create influence, could be a blog, could be YouTube channel, Instagram, it could be a podcast, whatever it is, but once you are creating that community, you know, starting to generate that influence you want to yield it and the way to yield it right. One of the ways is to really leverage the media, right, we talked about, you know, new media, but there's also traditional media. And there's also traditional media that leverages new media that you can get access to something like Wall Street Journal has a digital version, but they also have a newspaper, which many people subscribe to. So the topic that we talk about is how to leverage the media to amplify your brand exposure and increase credibility, which is also an important part of yielding influence. But get this without having to hire a PR agency or spend money. So some of the things we're going to talk about, learn how to differentiate yourself, in clarity to find what makes you or your company interesting before you pitch the media. This is also an extremely important concept. If you want to yield more influence, whether it's for yourself or for your business, how to identify the right media targets and channels, how to pitch them, and then how to amplify and leverage the media you get after it's been published, by using social media and paid social hits a great topic that fits this concept of developing and yielding influence by reaching out to the media. So I hope you enjoy it. And without further ado, here's the interview. Gary, buddy. This is Neal Schaffer. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you're on the world. I'm here with another exciting episode of maximize your social Podcast. Today we're going to be doing another live stream with a another special guest. We are here today to talk about something that I don't talk a lot about. And that's where I like to bring in experts how to leverage the media to amplify your brand exposure and increased credibility. No matter how much we do in social media, on our blogs, podcasts, whatever it is, we can always use more, you know, media, more amplification, and always looking for more credibility for our brand. So I think today's conversation is going to be extremely relevant, everybody. I with no further ado, I'm going to introduce our guests and on my left I'm really honored to have Adrian Salim Nunavik on our show today. Adrian is the founder of earned.co and he's also the author of the new book free PR, and I think he's gonna share a lot of advice from this book throughout this hour long podcast. But Adrian, welcome to the show. And please introduce yourself to the audience.

Adrian Salamunovic:

That's great. Great to be here. Um, yeah, my name is Adrian Simon today. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I'm an investor and advisor to actually hundreds of companies, which is what I love to do. And recently, here's a shameless plug male, author free PR book i co authored with Cameron, Harold Cameron, Harold's, the former CEO of one 800 got junk, he built his company from 4 million in revenue to nearly 200 million in revenue using the techniques in this book. And I built a company called canvaspop, which we bootstrapped with a couple $1,000 and turn that into an eight figure business, doing no advertising, just free PR. So this is the next journey of my life. I've exited canvaspop. And now, like I said, I'm focusing on advising authoring, speaking and investing. And that's pretty much it.

Neal Schaffer:

That's awesome. I can't wait to hear more about the book, you know, perhaps that's where we should start. So obviously, we you know, we talked beforehand, and these are some of the key areas we want to make sure we hit, why don't we start with the first one, which is learning, you know, before you pitch, and I suppose before you do anything online, you want to have your branding, very, very concise. And part of the brand, you know, obviously is not only showcasing your strengths, your expertise, but also differentiation right from your competitors. So how do you go about when you work with clients, or at your previous businesses, differentiating yourself? And clearly defining what makes you or your company interesting? What are the, you know, what should people listening to the podcast be going through in order to be able to do that? Yeah, I

Adrian Salamunovic:

mean, a couple things. The first thing that I think of when I think of differentiating yourself is Seth Godin spoke Purple Cow. And so that's something that I highly recommend everyone listen to this read, or at least skim through, and it's an old book, so many people read it, but that's the foundation of, of differentiating your company. And if you can create a company that's got differentiation, baked into it into its DNA from day one, your life's just gonna be a lot easier, you're gonna be able to stand out in the marketplace, you're going to get more interest from customers, you're going to get more interest from investors, and you're going to be more memorable, and most importantly, more remarkable. So people will talk about you. And when they talk about you a little know how to describe you in a way that's interesting. So I think that having a unique value proposition is probably the most important foundational thing you can do as a business founder, right from the start. So to answer your question, what do we do? Well, part, I have this course that I that I've produced, called pair bootcamp. And before we get into any tactics, what we have is a template for what we call a unique value proposition template. And that's what you're just saying, This is what we do. This is how we do it. This is where competitor competitors are. And most importantly, here's how we're different. And it's a sort of this template. And we spend a lot of time on that. Because if you don't get your UVP, or unique value proposition, right, then the rest doesn't matter. So that's, that's how we start, we start with that. And then after we're done kind of developing the UDP and iterating, that and getting it right, so that we're interesting, we can easily describe what we do in a sentence, then we tighten it even more into what's called a high concept pitch. So for those that are not familiar with what a high concept pitches, it really comes from Hollywood. So producers of movies had to have way or executive producers of movies had to have a mechanism for explaining what their movie was in one sentence, but not even a paragraph, just one sentence. So, example, right? If you think of an example, if I said to you, jaws in space, right? What movie might that be? It could be aliens, right? And so when the producer of aliens was, was trying to pitch aliens to be able to send a picture Jaws, except for in space, and they didn't get it right away. Right? If you're thinking of say, masterclass, right, you might say, Netflix for higher education or Netflix or learning or something like that, right? So you don't have to explain what masterclass says, you can just say, we are Netflix for learning, and almost anybody will understand that, including investors, journalists, whoever, so that's where we

Neal Schaffer:

start. That's awesome, really easy to understand. It sounds really easy, I'm sure it's very, very difficult for a lot of people and brands to be able to do that. And get to that, you know, in I see an interesting analogy, obviously, you know, our listeners and myself, we focus a lot on social media marketing and and really our brands. And our differentiators should come out in everything we do in social as well, right, whether it's text or whether it's visual, and that's really, you know, in social, we talk a lot about a niche. And I think that there is a there's a parallel here, where the niche obviously also is some sort of competitive difference, right? Right, that we're going to either as a subject or as a visual theme that we're going to be talking about, how do you go then taking that pitch to translating it into online activities? Obviously, you know, part of those activities are pitching the media. How do you translate that then to, I guess, for lack of a better word content marketing, right?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. I mean, there's riches and niches as the same goes. And we really like businesses that have niches. And I think one of the most powerful things about having a niche is you're not trying to boil the ocean, right? You know exactly who you're going after. So when I think of niches, I think of specific markets, and understanding who those markets are, if we break that down one step further. And this is marketing 101. We talk about archetypes or personas, right. And so the better you understand the niche, or the people that you're going after, in develop a persona, that sort of the second thing we do, as part of this training program, we ask people that take the course to develop 123 personas, I either niches, who they are, how old are they? What do they eat? How do they behave? What's their job? And most importantly, where do they go to consume information? So that would include social channels? Right? Are they? Are they visual? So they're on Pinterest and Instagram more? Or are they? Are they looking for information and data? Are they Facebook people? Are they you know, that's the type of stuff but on top of that, we like to go really, really granular and understand what specific influencers they follow authors that they tend to read their books. And then furthermore, and more importantly, what podcasts they listen to what blogs do they read? What TV shows or news channels, if they watch TV? What YouTube people do, they follow, etc, etc. And the reason so now we've got our niche. Now we've got our persona, or personas, and now we understand where they go to consume information. That's when the real power of earned media begins. Because now we know who to go after to get to them. That makes sense.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah. And I guess, you also know the channels you need to be on as well. And you mentioned, you know, YouTube podcast, these are two channels that are still a challenge, right for a lot of businesses to be able to publish content on those channels consistently. But if that's where their obviously their target audience is. And we know that, obviously, YouTube is a no brainer, but even podcasts. I mean, it's taken a while, but I really do see them becoming more and more mainstream with more and more people that I talked to. And that's why I'm investing obviously, more than the podcast. So, you know, I assume that would be that the next direction then, is sort of working on the channels and the content strategy.

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah. And so let me change the lens on that a little bit. So I think what you're talking about and very intelligently is how do you produce your own content, and then broadcast your own content out into the universe, right, which channel should I use for that, I'm actually the way we approach is a bit of a reverse, it's a bit of a cheat, we go after the person already has millions of listeners. And we kind of cheat instead of you know, it's a lot of work to set up a podcast broadcast that recorded when we're doing that right now. And it's awesome effort. But we want to flip the model on its back by a parent Joe Rogan's podcast and he has, you know, 30 million listeners, I didn't even have to bother building an audience, my product becomes famous overnight, or close to famous overnight. So that's what earned media is all about is actually knowing your audience going where they already are. And then going to those media sources and getting them to cover you so that you have instant exposure, instead of what we're doing here. With this podcast. We're slowly building up an audience from the bottom up, which is still great. But what we do is a reverse, if that makes sense.

Neal Schaffer:

Got it? Got it. Of course, concern media, obviously, it's coming from someone else. Yeah. And so instead of in the in the past, for those of you that might remember the past, instead of, you know, creating a media list of all the media outlets you want to pitch we're now talking about because obviously the influence of media has been democratized. You're now coming up with what are the podcasts? Who are the YouTubers? What are the bloggers and put into your list that now really transpires a lot of different content mediums and platforms?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yes, and including deal media. So like, we still go after the New York Times, and TechCrunch and verge and the traditional publications, because I think it's important, I'm a multi tier strategy, right? You want to go after nano influencers and micro influencers, and you want to go after podcasters and YouTubers, of course, that's what the direction everything's moving. The wonderful thing there is, when you go into those micro channels, I call them, you can go super niche, like really, you might only have 200 people listening to that podcast, but all 200 Are your exact customer. So it's very powerful. But I like to top that up on the other end to this day. I like to get to New York Times and PC mag and of course TechCrunch because that creates that real third party credibility. And more importantly to this day still link juice right at the end of the day, if you're a web based company, a link or two from the New York Times on TechCrunch is going to have way more link authority and drive way more traffic than 100 Micro bloggers if that makes sense. So so you don't want to just do one you want to do a multi tier strategy looking like a cake, big players on top for credibility and for the logos on your site. The as CNN which you do a great job on your website. If you look you know obviously you see all the exposure that you've gone and then you also want to working on micro micro influencers and bloggers podcasters etc.

Neal Schaffer:

That makes a lot of sense and similar to you know, I'm writing An influencer marketing similar to obviously engaging with all sorts of different tiers of influencers, because they each bring something different. And yeah, obviously, more and more brands are working with Nano influencers for that reason that you just gave. But hey, you know, if Kim Kardashian was to cover their beauty brand, that would be awesome. So I'm curious. So I receive an agent, I'm sure you receive a lot of pitches as well. So the pitches I get, I mean, Adrian, you pitch me, right. So, you know, podcasts, interviews, guest blog posts, what have you. And I find the mistake, and this is getting into brands that reach out to influencers, because they're trying to get earned media as well, right. I think it's the exact same concept, those influences primarily on Instagram. But what I find yours was not this way. But what I find for a lot of the pitches that I get, and a lot of the pitches I get from brands to work with an influencer. It's cookie cutter, right? It's not personalized, I actually show examples of some pretty famous companies with some pretty embarrassing copy. Basically, it was a pitch that was copied. And then they just hand wrote my name and hand wrote a signature, literally, right. And it absolutely works against you, because you're reaching out to people that can make or break you. You're not going the extra mile to actually personalize it. For them. And for their audience. I'm assuming part of what you're teaching is, is that personalized? I mean, would you agree that there's still a lot of that people are just looking for the easy way out and not putting in over a mile?

Adrian Salamunovic:

I can't agree more with what you're saying. In fact, that's the core of the entire book of support the entire course, it's everything in life, really, I mean, not just in getting influencers, getting media, getting investors, personalization is so important. So I'd rather you send 10 emails where the first paragraph is hyper personalized, you know, I read your article, I just saw your blog. I agree with you on these points. I don't agree with you on this point. Like, I always tell people and I have, you know, dozens and dozens of companies in my advisory circle. And I tell them, guys, if we're going to pitch anybody, that first paragraph has to hit home, it has to make them clear that in a world where everyone's using merge software and Autobots on LinkedIn, and it's just so obvious that these are automated, be the Purple Cow in your messaging, and just personalize you nailed it. I can't say any better than you did. You have to nail nail nail nail, your personalization and every communication? In fact, I'll tell you something, you know, it's kind of funny story. years ago, this is almost 1010 years ago, I was able to get one of my companies DNA 11, featured not just on the background, but featured on CSI New York, on the TV show. And the way I did that is by doing what are called moonshots. And so I encourage entrepreneurs, the first thing I want everyone to think about right now at home or listen to this is what's your moonshot is it? Is it to be on Joe Rogan's podcast as it is to appear in The New York Times Is it is it you know, to be on a major TV show,

Neal Schaffer:

throw the OPMA, baseball Dodger Stadium?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Whatever your moonshot that will get you the most PR right could be to be on the show the back show. I don't it not announcing a new person as a brand. I'm saying, What if your product appeared on x? What would move the needle the most right? For me? CSI New York was something I you know, moonshot and the way I did it, rather than sending an email or, or sending a tweet or, you know, doing something Lazy is I wrote a letter, I actually hand wrote a letter and send it to attention. Anthony Zucker, who was the executive producer of CSI, right, put that letter, like lick the envelope, and the stamp and put it in the mail and then forgot about it. Well, a couple months later go by and my phone rings, and I'm in Florida at the time. I remember very vividly, the phone rings in the executive producer of CSI wasn't Anthony, but it was his executive producer. And she was like we written and this was a they've already written the episode they're saying, we've already written an episode about your your idea, your art. And now we just need some samples. And I thought it was a joke, to be honest with you. But if you want to see the episode, you can search DNA 11 DNA one, one, CSI New York, you can see it, it's on YouTube. Yeah. Anyways, two points. If you don't ask you don't get if you don't go in and take those risks of those crazy moon shots. You might have to do 100 moon shots, but if you get one, it'll change your life. And for us that happened when we were in front of 8 million people on CSI write to it. When you do these moon shots, do them differently. Send a gift send something a letter, put a letter in a bottle, send somebody a cupcakes that are personalized with a letter and most people don't want to take risks. They hate being rejected. But guess what? You're gonna have to be rejected. Whether you're reaching out to influencers, partners, investors, or the media, you're gonna have to do it 100 times and fail 99 to get that one. Yes. And that's what the book is really all about.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, and I have it in my book as well, giving brands advice on how to reach out to influence it's a sale, you're gonna identify 2000 people I don't know, you know what numbers you give out during your classes, but you're gonna it's gonna be hundreds if not 1000s of people and it's a funnel right and not everyone's gonna respond. I mean, people are doing different things. What have you and yeah, you Right, that the conversion is going to be low. But obviously, that one conversion should bring a heck of a lot of value. So you bring up a really interesting point, though about the letters. And you know, you have like, send out cards and all these services that say, Hey, you should go old school, because that still gets delivered. And it helps differentiate you. And I know, I mean, that's amazing experience you have with CSI near, I grew up here in LA, and I was in a punk rock and alternative rock, and my favorite band was a band called x. And if you don't know them, but I remember I was go, I saw them when I was in high school, you know, going to conscious the Roxy and whiskey. And I remember writing a letter to Maxine, saying, Hey, I'm going to be going with my friends, she's really down. This is her favorite song that it would be awesome. If you could dedicate a song to her, it would make it would mean a lot to her. And she did, right. And that's where I realized the power of actually that, you know, that was like a moonshot per se. But the power of actually, yeah, if other people had done it, I don't know if they would have been successful, but people just don't do it. Right. They don't take that extra step, you know, sort of, you know, pursue that dream, or personalize or whatever it may be. But I'm curious. And I don't want to put a date on this podcast, because then some people may say, Oh, why you sharing a podcast that you post last week? You get all sorts of people out there. But you know, today, right agent, you have helped companies yourself. I've done a lot of outreach on different channels, would you say and obviously, it's different for every business, every person are their channels today, for those listening that you recommend they invest a little bit more on when they do outreach. For instance, no one's reading your emails anymore. But if you send them an Instagram direct message, or Twitter direct message, you have a much better chance or forget all that you should be sending letters. Is there any? And I know it's not, you know, there's no cookie cutter approach to any of this. But do you see any trends? Or you know, what you've seen lately that works or any advice you would give?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah, for sure. That's a great question. So I You hit the nail on the head with the direct message thing. In fact, I've seen more and more success with major, major, major influencers getting back to me, even if they don't follow me on Instagram, DMS and Instagram are very powerful. It's like, nobody thinks that the influencer is going to read it when they're just humans like us. Now instead of having 10 requests in their inbox, they have 400. But somebody's scanning them. And usually if them when they're bored at the airport, or whatever, you'd be surprised your messages has a very good chance of being read. So DMS for influencers, DMS and Instagram, obviously, for journalists, they actually really liked using Twitter, a lot of their Twitter open. Right, and you can see when they read it, it's fantastic. So I would say that the latest latest and greatest is Twitter, Twitter, direct messaging,

Neal Schaffer:

I will say the Instagram DM really is powerful. And the Twitter, just you know, a few days ago, I actually had an editor, while writer I should say from PC mag reached out to me, when journalists reach out to you on Twitter, they have a timeline. And maybe if you've ever been if the media is ever out, you have a timeline, and I missed the deadline. It was a day where I wasn't really active on Twitter got hold of him the next day, and the opportunity was gone. So part of it is also if you're going to use these channels to do outreach, you really need to monitor them. So that when especially right journalists, they usually have very, very tight deadlines. And they're going to they're just going to like someone else. And if you're out there

Adrian Salamunovic:

totally right. And we have a story in the book about another story. Quick story is we had this piece of art, we had a company called DNA 11 that I mentioned earlier, we got a call at eight o'clock at night, we're done a charity project with Elijah Wood from Lord of the Rings. And he was on a press thing was months after we did the events. We weren't expecting anything like this. Eight o'clock, my phone rings. And it's producer for Conan O'Brien said we need some some B roll or some footage of Elijah with his artwork. He's going to talk about her on the show. And they record login don't realize this, they record this during the day. So they needed it in. They needed it in the morning. They needed it by 11am. Pacific time. Our I don't remember was telling me yeah, they're filming in LA. And so or New York, I don't recall. But regardless, it had I not been around available at 8pm When I got this message responded quickly would have missed that opportunity. And so whenever you're working with influencers, or the media, whatever, you have to be available, like you said, or you can miss gigantic opportunities. And I've heard many horror stories where founders are busy, the major publication reaches out to you. And you're not there. You're not responsive to working nine to five and you miss the opportunity. So yes, timeliness is almost everything with the media. And let me add something there too, that we're talking about when you're when you're pitching the media or working with the media. What I tell people to do is to think that we work for the media, not the other way around. So this is a major thing. Like I look at the media as almost I don't want to say my boss, but I work for them. My job is to be available to them when they need me to be available to help bring value to their audience to help them create a great story or narrative. And if you go in with that attitude of servitude, you're going to get so much more from the media over and over again, as opposed to Yeah, I think I could schedule you in are busy and playing hard to get or or just not being available. So so that has served me very well. My career is always working for you not like I'm doing you a favor, you're doing me a favor by interviewing me. And that's been always been my attitude.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, that's really great advice is something like I said, I obviously focus more on that social media side of things. But for instance, you know, tools, vendors reaching out, hey, you know, we'd love if you could talk about our tool, we'll give you a 30 day free trial. So I could go to their website and get the same 30 day free trial, right? If you want to work with with a journalist with someone that you want to get coverage from, why would not you go out of your way, and offer them as much value as possible? As you're saying, Adrian, I'm, I'm really surprised. So few people do this, they should say we want to give you lifetime access. We just would love if you became a user and give us your feedback. And obviously, if you liked it, it'd be great if you shared it with your audience. But you know, we just want to begin a relationship. And I think that oftentimes, businesses can't relate this to human relationships, and really converted into the fact that you're trying to become a friend with someone, right? Yeah. And when you want to become friends, you're not going to ask them to buy you a drink, you're going to buy them a drink to start the conversation. That's right. It's just very to us. It's common sense. But there's so many people, maybe it's because they have deadlines, they don't have the budget, they're used to working this way. But I do think that these days, Adrian, I don't know, you've been doing this for a while, obviously, I do think that those that have influence, and obviously I'm looking more at the influence of marketing side to just more and more people reaching out to them. And they are in a position of power. Where if you're gonna lowball them, they're not even going to reply. Right? So I think that that concept of adding value and being their friend is is just more and more important, as more and more businesses have have realized what they need to do to get their media coverage.

Adrian Salamunovic:

So when we're talking about it was interesting, you're talking about from an influencer sort of lens, I'm talking about more traditional media PR reach, but at the same day, at the same time, who's on the other end human beings, right? People, that families have schedules they have, they're busy, there are a lot of noise coming at them. And you're right, the best way to stand out is by almost, again, trying to be empathetic, I think being having empathy is really key, understanding people getting hundreds of emails, or hundreds of messages, standing out by offering value first, by being different with your value by being generous with your value and sort of having, let's say, the most important thing, an attitude of servitude, an attitude of saying here, I'm here to help you, I want to help you do a review of my product, not just because I want to get exposure for my product, but I think it's going to be useful to you, I think it's going to bring value to your audience, I'm happy to give you a free trial. I'm also happy to give like a prize, a way that we can do a giveaway, and talk about how we can partner as opposed to here's my product, here's my link, let me know if you're willing to cover me that's not gonna work these days. So So I think we're on the exact same page, like leave a value lead with empathy, and do it 1000 times people fare to get $900 or $999, if necessary, is so the trick to success. There's no silver bullet.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, it's funny, just from a blogger perspective, you know, hey, new infographic would love if you put it on your blog on this page. And so these are people that have done a little bit of research using SEO tools. And they realize that certain pages have certain value, right? If they had gone the extra mile and say, Hey, I already I know that you require a minimum 1500 word blog post, I already wrote you a blog post, it's right here. And I realize that your competitor who outranks you on Google is already using an infographic. This is way why you may want to publish one as well. Because that is something that Google weigh in, you know what I mean? Just taking the extra mile and making it easy, and really adding that value. And I think that's going to be one of the big takeaways from today's conversation. But obviously, we have more to talk about, I'm just going to get back to our agenda. I know we've already covered some of what we were going to cover, you know, later on. So identifying the right media targets and channels, and how to pitch them. So I think we've already talked about some of this. What if you don't know who your ideal targets are? What advice would you give people?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah, there's a couple of things that we do. So the first one will go from least amount of lifting and simplest to more complex and more precise. So the first and easiest thing to do is talk to your customers, right? So let's just say you're just starting off and you have sort of an idea of who your customers are and you have five friends or people relatively close to you that you know, would be the type of people that would consume your product or service just go up to them and have a conversation and now the question is I like to ask our straight up what blogs do follow when it comes to my product right? Uh, what influencers do you follow? What books have you read around the subject matter? We're trying to get in their heads and understand where they go to consume information, then we can always ask like, do you spend more time on Facebook or Instagram? Or do you watch TV? Do you read physical newspaper some people still do in the baby boomer market? So you just want to uncover these little nuggets right? Now the way we tend to do it is we tend to because most of my clients already have market fit or a few 100 Maybe sometimes a few 1000 Plus customers. So we can do a little micro surveys. I love using Typeform but you can use Survey Monkey or whatever. And the questions are what block the same thing what blogs do you listen to what influencers you listen to what authors do you follow, what podcasts you listen to and If you get 100 responses, you're gonna see some patterns, right. And we're looking for that repetition, we're looking for the same names that are coming up more than twice or more than three times. And that aggregate allows us to create a persona that allows us to really understand get ideas of people who may have not even heard of that some names are going to come out of that survey and some publications that you haven't even heard of, and then you're going to go investigate those publications and figure out a way to work with them. It could be affiliate, it could be I prefer for you to approach them on like editorial front, say, look, I can contribute articles, right, which is a very powerful way to to get consistent feedback that we haven't talked about. But one one amazing ways, if you find out that people read Success Magazine, or something, or Forbes, is become a contributor, which is a little bit harder to get in. But once you're in that you can contribute on a regular basis, which is incredible value, orange, just get a review for your product, do a partnership, there's all sorts of things you can do with this information, you have the power

Neal Schaffer:

of a survey of just asking your customers. And in some cases, even asking your employees if you have a large company is so powerful. You get such such insight such data. I'm surprised the more companies don't do this, I'm surprised I don't get more survey requests. It's funny brands reaching out to me as an influencer, for instance, is one men's fashion brand. That, you know, I applied to some of their campaigns. I wasn't accepted, yet. They sent me a survey request, they want to know how do we make our retail stores more Instagrammable, right? It cetera, et cetera. So it really is something powerful that you know, more and more businesses should be doing for for a lot of different reasons.

Adrian Salamunovic:

And beyond the survey, if you don't want to do either of those, although I highly recommend that you do survey, you can often just look at your data, right? Google Analytics now has demographical data. If you have a Facebook page, you can really look at who's following you already. And that gives you an idea. Do not be customers by Alicia understanding who your following is all that's available on Facebook Insights. And beyond that, what I like to do is if you have an email list, and most of us have 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s of people on an email list, there are all sorts of services that allow you to upload those lists. And then they'll use that those email addresses to match them to demographical data. So there's, there's a couple of companies that that offer that service. And so that's the data way, that's the really lazy, quick way. You know, it's available to all of us, if you don't have access to survey, and if you don't have any one of those, at least talk to five to 10 of your clients and just get a feel for it. It's better than going in blind. Right?

Neal Schaffer:

In the right. Yeah, awesome advice. So now that you have, you know, we started from the beginning of, obviously, the brand new differentiation, the the elevator pitch. And now we've built our list out, figured out who we want to target. And we start getting one or two published pieces of media. What's the next step? They're wanting to talk about amplifying and leveraging that media that you get? So what do you recommend? I'm sure most businesses are just like, Yes, we did it and, and they think that's the end goal, when obviously, it shouldn't be the end goal. Right?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Now. It's just the beginning. I mean, so I'm getting PR first of all, it's like a flywheel. The first two hits are the hardest, and most people give up before they get there. So in my experience takes three to six months from the moment you decide that, hey, I want to do this PR thing myself. And even if you hire an agency, people think Oh, it'll be so much faster and easier, no matter what it's going to take you three to six months to really start landing the media that you want to get the tier one that business insiders, the TechCrunch is the New York Times, right? Because it takes time, it just takes time. And then once you get those logos, or you get the lead those media things, that's the beginning, that's when you want to really step on the pedal and keep the momentum going. And what happens is eventually the flywheel starts to spin on its own, you become a source, you become sort of the perceived leader in your space, if it's a new category. And before you know it, the media starts approaching you, the partner start reaching out to you that you could never get in front of. And I've seen this happen time and time again. So those that sort of commit and go through that three to six month window and start to get that media, that's when you want to step on the pedal. So how do you step on the pedals? The next question, but one thing is, as soon as you get the media right away, you want to put that logo in your website. So if any landed article in Business Insider, I've seen in Business Insider, and you can link in a new window through there. The next thing you want to do right away is publicly thank the journalist and share the article. So you want to say thanks to journalist, great article on our work, so proud to be featured at Business Insider, here's a link to our article. And you want to share that maybe even pin it to your Twitter, you don't just want to amplify it. And thirdly, this is something a very, very few people know about and very few companies do, but that we've seen really huge results on so it's a really big hack. So let's just say you get your company's featured in Forbes or Fortune. It's going to organically get a few 1000 hits and then it's going to start to die down as the site creates more content, right you want to do and this is really cool, is you want to actually run Facebook advertising For example to that article, and not just directly to the article, but using a service called snip Li, s ni P dot L Y, I'm an affiliate, I have no business relationship with them. I just love what they're doing, right. And so snip Li is like Bitly to shorten the link shorter week Sephora does one really, really cool thing that it does is lets you send them to that Forbes article. But at the bottom, you're gonna see your URL, a link to your site, just floating their feature so that they can read the article, they get that third party, you know, validation from Forbes, oh, I really like the solution. That's why I clicked on the ad to read the Forbes article. Now I'm ready to buy, they click the link and they go to your site. So it's a great way to close the loop on that. It's an amazing hack. I won't name the company but one of the top top companies, I advise with biggest fundraisers on Kickstarter ever use this technique to grow their brand to 10s of millions in revenue. So that's something that I want you guys to think about how you can use simply or use your earned media and repurpose it as semi paid to, to amplify it over and over again. And then the last thing is, the Forbes folks are going to notice that and that Forbes article got 50,000 views instead of 2000 views like all the other ones, wow, we should probably do more interviews, these guys are getting a lot of attention. So it just it's a nice way to kind of feed the ecosystem and and get that momentum going that flywheel artificially kinda, but not organically at the same

Neal Schaffer:

time. Yeah. And obviously, they are looking at the data when they see that an article resonates still, they'll have you back, right? It's really funny. Early on in my career. As a marketer, I was on Michael Stelzner, who's from Social Media Examiner, this is one of the you know, most influential media outlets in social media marketing had me on his podcast, and he's like Neo, and I was about to come out with a new book. It's like, Neil, you must be on time this podcast, I'm like, No, this is actually, this actually the first podcast I've ever been on. And he just, oh, once you're on this podcast, you're going to get tons of invites to other podcasts. And indeed, that happens, right? So as you say, but once you're on it, you want to amplify the heck out of it. For all those reasons that you gave, right? It's gonna give, it's good for your publicity. It's also good for your relationship with that media outlet. And that's interesting snippet simply as a tool, it's been around a while. And there are other tools that that are around, there's a lot of there's some systems that will sort of block that technology from coming onto your website. But it's good to hear I've had success with tools like that, it's good to hear that your customer obviously was extremely successful. And I you know, it comes down, obviously, I'm sure the amplification, the relevance of their branding on that little piece at the bottom there. There's a lot of things that go into that. But yeah, that's great advice for everybody. You know, Adrian, we've covered a lot, what are what are the gaps? I mean, is that is that pretty much it? It sounds really easy, but I know it's about getting a process and the the research, obviously, the infrastructure, the research, the actual, you know, personalized outreach, all this is extremely time consuming. And you mentioned three to six months. So you know, your book free PR, and your system is all about how you can do this yourself without hiring an agency. On the other hand, you're already saying this is going to require a lot of work. If you know if doing this for three to six months is not worth the time. That's when you may you may want to consider working with an agency. And is there a stage where you would say if you think it's just gonna take too much time, you know, knowing what you need to do. But if you just don't have the time to do it, you should hire an agency, do you? Do you ever have those conversations with clients with businesses?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Sometimes you there's no choice, you have to hire an agency. You know, if you've bought, we have seen very little, very few instances where people are happy with their PR agencies. Yeah. Let's talk about that for a second. This is a reality to industry. And that's the reason we wrote this book is because we as founders of eight and nine figure companies have hired parents exam, of course, that's the first thing we did. And over and over, I've seen this 100 times is because a 90% failure rate were these appeared as he's typically charged retainer fees on a month,

Neal Schaffer:

once I've hired PR agencies before, right, so what's the deal?

Adrian Salamunovic:

And here's the deal, I'll tell you exactly that we study in the first decade, I've tried to dissect it, no carriages, he starts off wanting to do work. They just they don't, right. They want to create a radius. And then they usually start off really good. It's a founder who's very passionate, very well connected the media. And then, you know, they have three or four clients and they're getting a ton of success. So they're a publicist, more of a independent person like you or I were, we're really passionate about our business. And we don't have 300 employees, right. We're one person with some support people around us, and we're doing amazing craft level discipline work with a few clients. Well, success breeds more success. So what happens is we have five clients, those five clients are telling all their friends and peers that now we have 20 clients, and here's the problem. We have to start scaling. So we start hiring Junior publicists. And then we're still going into the meetings because they want to meet with us and we show them our past the low So the periodicity principle, or the founders usually are the partners come in, they show a wonderful Deck, the decks are always amazing, right? Hundreds of articles, lots of logos, it's really exciting stuff. And then this contract gets signed the contracts, usually multi month, fixed retainer per month, usually five to 1015 20,000, it could be anywhere from five to 15,000 or more per month, minimum three months commitment, because that's the ramp up period. That's what they'll tell you. Right, then before you know it, you're three months in, and here's what happens. They can't as the principal, they're out there being the face of the brand. They've got very, that a 23 year old intern, building a list of doing the pitching. And although they're being guided, and they're being helped, and they might have some contacts in the media, those quickly get exhausted. And remember that that interview, even that partner, that PR firm is not as passionate about you or your company, your mission, your why you as the founder, the most passionate spokesperson for your company. And so what we do, what we say is do the same thing, but bring it in house. Because this is kind of happens over and over PR firms that don't scale, well, you end up being customer one of 20. So they can only give you so much bandwidth. And they're used to customers coming and going every three months. That's why they have minimum retainers and all that stuff. So so it's a broken system. And so what we suggest you do is you hire the same 23 year old intern, or you grab that same person from your own team that's maybe eager, and what we're looking for somebody with hustle, that's all we want. Somebody who's really pretty articulate can can write a decent email, and can follow a process. But the one thing we cannot teach is hustle. So it's got to be the type of person. And that's why we usually recommend hiring people sales backgrounds, because at the end of the day, PR earned media is a sales process as much as anything, right going out there, you're making friends, you're building relationships are getting told no a lot. So we're looking for that Hustler, it's for lack of a better term. And you can grab that person, you can get them to read my book, right? Or you can get them to sign up for my course. So this is yeah, it's a bit of an infomercial, but it's coming from my heart. And then we can turn that person into your own in house publicists. And then you want to pay them retainer fees that you you essentially own that resource. They're focused on you and you only and yeah, if you want to find out more about that, it's earned.co. If you guys want to show that link, we'd love to, you know, sign up anyone that thinks that will bring value to So yeah, that's the idea. The idea is turn your your best employee in your in house publicist, and get PR 365 days a year instead of doing these ad hoc contracts with PR agencies.

Neal Schaffer:

Yeah, that's great advice. And thank you, you answered a lot of a lot of doubts that I sort of had about the industry, I suppose if you were to find those companies early on in their growth, when it is just a solopreneur operation, and they only have one other client, they've already had a lot of success, I guess there might be ways in which you could be successful. But for most of them, yeah, you can't scale those relationships, which that publicist brings, or the process is hard to scale unless you train those right people. But that's not what publicists are, are. That's not their core competency, right. And you

Adrian Salamunovic:

don't own those relationships, right? Once you start getting the slideshow going. Now you have those relationships, those journalists, so Neil has his relationships with the people at Forbes and fortune, you can text them or email them or call them directly, the pulse is almost always going to guard those contacts somewhere behind their firewall. So there's a distance between you as the client. And so you want to own those relationships. And it's a long, it's a longer play game to bring PR in house. But whether you're a two person company and your founder, and you want to learn this, or whether you're 100% committed just want to bring it in house. That's something that we help people do all all the time.

Neal Schaffer:

And it's it's similar in the world of influencer marketing, instead of using agencies actually bringing it in house as well, right. And it's really a different form of media relations, influencers are the new media and digital media. So it's that same you know your product better than anyone, you know how to converse with these people better than anyone, you're you should be more natural at it, why not keep it in house and just hire those people and train them? So I think that and more and more of all this is coming in house, right? Instead of going external for a lot of various reasons. One of them well, many of them you mentioned, but that's really great advice. So I'm curious, you brought up like Forbes, and there's a lot of people in the marketing world. I know, we have a lot of marketers listening to this. That are we're starting to see, you know, bloggers that maybe we follow that aren't, you know, Gary Vaynerchuk. But we're starting to see you know, more and more these people on Forbes, or on ink or on some of these magazines that 10 years ago. We're very, very limited in terms of opportunities for for bloggers and businesses, what has changed and what advice to give you I had the chance to be a contributor to Forbes because they have something called the coaches counsel. I'm sure you're familiar with this. And in all transparency, if you see some of the coaches counts, it is it is paid. You pay a I believe it's a quarterly fee. And for that quarter feed has a lot of different benefits. One of them is that if it's approved by the editorial board, you can get published. So, right. So is that basically what's happening with with all these media? They see it as another, you know, way to monetize? Or what's the scoop? And what's the advice?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah. So there's, there's essentially three tiers, right. So when you don't have a following yet, sometimes you have to get the first one. And you may have to pay in depth, I believe it's the young entrepreneurs network, or why yo, that has the program, I believe that's managing or you might be ill, or why you I don't remember which, but for $2,000, you can join the fourth one of the Forbes Council, so they have everything from finance to agencies, and whatever. And for $2,000, you get a guaranteed exposure and article. Now that doesn't mean you have to, they help you write the article. So you're sharing your expertise with the network. And those typically don't get a ton of views. But now at least your for your first bite, you're kind of cheating a little bit, you're buying that as seen in Forbes, right? You create a great article, you share that article that kind of gives you that first foothold when you have no credibility. So actually recommend doing that. I don't think it's a bad idea. So and you get a lot of other benefits. So with

Neal Schaffer:

the editorial and from experience, they do have editorial it does vet it, you're not going to be I mean, from topic idea to the final content. And they're not going to take it today and publish tomorrow. It is it is a several week process. So sorry about that.

Adrian Salamunovic:

No, you're exactly right. And it is it's absolutely vetted, right, if you're a writer, and I'm in no way affiliated with them at all, but I have sent a few my clients that way, just to get them their first contributor article. But the second level is where I really want people to focus on is where, once you've shown some value, some expertise is becoming a real contributor to Forbes. And that's a little harder to get, you know, you see those bigger name entrepreneurs, but there's some less than large entrepreneurs that have these sort of monthly or quarterly contribution articles. They're not paying for it. They're just great writers, they have great content to share. And that's really where you want to be. Specifically, if you're in a consulting game, or you're in any type of any type of game where you want to reach a wider audience. Let's be honest, we all have blogs, but how many views do we get right? If you can be on Forbes as Forbes as your blogging platform, you're going to get a lot more eyes on it, and a lot more credibility. So I love it when you get a contributor status, but you got to start somewhere, and very few people are going to go from zero to be an actual contributor. And the third and last level, which is a top tier is when you end up, you're not a contributor, but Forbes approaches you to say we want to write about your company. And it's an actual journalists that works for Forbes doing a feature on your company, and it ends up in the magazine and online. And that's their nirvana. Right, that's when you want to get to the top of the game. And that's what we teach. But if you can get in any one of those levels at the start, you know, more and more, we're seeing a lot of publications opening up the back end of their sites, Huffington Post started this trend, Huffington Post is really user contributed content. That's why anybody can become a Huffington Post journalist. Right? But but it works. It's great content. And it's a sort of a hybrid system.

Neal Schaffer:

On that second tier, though, what would be your advice to those that want to become regular contributors? Without paying as a stepping stone?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah, so the first step is, you know, it's a bit of a catch 22, you're going to have to create your first blog post. So if you don't have one already, okay, let's assume you already do have a blog post look for the one that had the most signaling. So what do I mean by that? Look, for one out a lot of comments on a lot of shares, what or one that got the most visits, data will tell you right data doesn't lie, you're going to see, okay, my eighth blog posts got a ton of likes. I like using LinkedIn, because LinkedIn has some built in amplification to it, where people can leave comments and dislikes. And you want to do three articles on LinkedIn, right short form, whatever you want to write that you think is relevant to your audience, right? And then get as many people to like it comment as possible, then now you have your sort of prototype. Now you want to go to the editors of these publications, whatever industry publications want to get featured in and say, Look, I'm not a professional writer, but I would love to contribute articles about my 10 years of experience of doing X y&z And here's an example of an article I wrote recently, it got, you know, 180 likes and 40 comments, and and here's a link, and then at least they see that you're able to write, so they'll look at an article and they'll see what kind of vacation it got, who's it well written, and that's your foot in the door, right? So you got to start somewhere, you can't really just go up to the editor of Forbes or Fortune or Inc, or whatever, and just say, Hey, I'm a great writer, trust me, let me contribute an article, they're gonna want to see examples. And that's, that's the key. That's It's really that simple.

Neal Schaffer:

So it's showing them some social proof and use LinkedIn or, you know, dig around on Forbes or to find the editor. Reach out to them and go from there. So that's a, you know, very similar to the advice that of getting your media in general, a microcosm of that as soon but yeah, great advice. So agent, you've given us a lot of value. A lot of little tidbits here. So you obviously are the author of free PR. Tell us in a minute or two about the book why you wrote it. What's it about? I know that You know, we pretty much have a good feel from interviewing the last 15 minutes. Anything else you can add about the book or? Or suggestions? Yeah, well,

Adrian Salamunovic:

let's talk about real quick is relevant to both of us and relevant to a lot of people listening right now is book as applied as a marketing platform. I mean, it's, I waited way too long to write my first book, I'm really glad I did. You can speak about this too, I think it's one of if you can write a book and find the bandwidth and the time to write a book, I highly recommend it because it, you're not going to make money from your book, we've sold almost 10,000 books so far, but you don't really make money from that side of it, where you really make them, the benefit, is be able to do stuff like that. So once you have your book ready, then you get invited onto podcast, it's easier to get speaking gigs. And it really is a business card that you can use to create expertise. And that one trend that I've been seeing, I'm going to predict we're going to see this more in 2020 is where businesses publish their own books, and use them as a marketing platform. So this will be something that hub spots done, drift. If you weren't sure of drift, calm, I'm not affiliated with them, but I really liked them. I think they're onto something with a series of books, they use Amazon to distribute the books even sell the books, they give them away a lot of conferences. But that's that's a trend I think we're gonna see a lot is not just individual brands like us, but actual companies writing books, that are thought pieces, and that are valuable, and as a great way to get earned media. Yeah, you

Neal Schaffer:

know, it's interesting, a lot of the companies that I work with, there's always this concept of customer education, that we need to educate our customer, because then they'll understand why we're better than the competitor, right. And the book is the great way to do that. Now, for those of you that are listening, I'm going to be interviewing the Constantine from publish iser, which is a really innovative platform that basically allows you to crowdsource funds to write your book. And it gives you exposure to potential publishers, it is the platform that I used to write and publish the age of influence, which is going to be published with HarperCollins March aging. Another reason I'm having you on is I'm personally interested in in your techniques for my upcoming book. I couldn't agree more I don't you know, a book gives you something to talk about it as a big fat business card. But once you have a book, people pay attention, just like me being on Michael Stoltzfus podcast, once you have a book, especially if you do any speaking, but really any business, it is customer education is something you can leave behind. You want to educate your customers, you want to get them to the next level and see the world from your businesses perspective. And this gives you the ability to do it. And it's so easy now to you know, write something, you can hire editors that used to work at, you know, major publishers, hire graphic designers get it up on Amazon, and you're done. And yeah, it's not money making, it's, it's all about the credibility and building that platform. And, and I tell people, you know, hey, well, we'll let you speak, you can sell your books, the back of the room and say, I don't want to, you know, if there's my target audience in the audience, right, I don't want to sell them a $25 book, I'd rather give them the book for free, because they're there, obviously, the patronage is worth a lot more than the 25 hours of the book. And, and even if you only have a $5 product, if you think a customer lifetime value, they buy this product average x times a year for how many years, you know, you get the picture. So I completely agree with you on that. So free PR, I'm assuming Adrian that we can find that at Amazon and all the great book places that we shop out.

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah. And free PR book.com If you want to go there, my contact informations there, Cameron, like co author, his contact informations there, and you can sign up for the training and look at our profile, everything's at three pr book.com.

Neal Schaffer:

Okay, so the training that you've talked about as well, I wanted to, I wanted you to give us a pitch on that. Because you've you've obviously brought it up and it sounds like it's a great resource for those that might be interested in it. That's also going to be free pr.com

Adrian Salamunovic:

You can just sign up for the training there and get a strategy session and talk to us and see if you're fit.

Neal Schaffer:

And does your training have a branded name to it?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah, it's called PR bootcamp

Neal Schaffer:

PR boot camp.

Adrian Salamunovic:

Yeah, it's very kind of fight club, it's very invite only or very, we're very specific on who we allow into the program. So you can only find it at Axios, free PR book.com. And then everything's there. And it's getting you have to apply to do the training, not just anybody can get in. And so once you're in there, what we do is we just train companies on how to bring PR in house. So they have to it has to be a good fit. Not every company should attend to this. But we know when we talk to him. So we set up a strategy session usually and just talk about learn about you your business, see if you're fit and go from there.

Neal Schaffer:

That sounds awesome. Adrian, hey, you know, I want to thank you so much. We're sort of at the end of the hour here, Agent, you know, once again, thank you so much. This is gonna provide a lot of value i i love doing these live streams and then obviously repurposing the content because it's just it's evergreen advice. And I think with this, you know, democratization of media influence just becomes more and more relevant content over time, actually. So hopefully, you're going to be helping a lot of businesses through through listening any, any final words before we enter broadcast?

Adrian Salamunovic:

Well, that's really it. I mean, I really enjoyed it. We covered a lot and I hope you know, at the very least people get value from the book. That's why we wrote the book. It's kind of like our gift to the universe to make sure People learn about how to do this and go out there and get that media and earn it. Cobos valuable. That's

Neal Schaffer:

earned media, you have to earn it right? It's not right. It doesn't happen magically. So make sure you check out free PR book.com You check out Adrian's book free PR you reach out to him on social or, you know, go to free PR book.com where all His contact information is. And you know, I look forward to hearing back from those those success stories of people that are listening to this that work with you. So, Adrian, once again, thank you very much. It's been awesome having you on the show. We'll keep in touch and best of luck with everything. Thanks. So I hope you thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Adrian there. I also want to thank you all for all of the reviews that you've been putting up on on Apple podcasts, I guess which, which it's now called on Spotify, Stitcher, on Google Play, wherever you can listen to my podcast, I want to share another review. This comes from Lee constancy. Lee is actually one of the founders, executives of publish iser, and for those of you that don't know, publish iser is the platform for which I crowdfunded, the id really tested marketed. The idea for the age of influence leads a great guy, if you're thinking about writing a book, there is going to be a podcast episode of an interview that I did with him, which I share my entire journey of why use their platform, and how it helped me land a publishing deal and how it really helped bring this book the age of influence to life. But be said fresh new insights that work Neil takes a fresh approach to providing real insight that he knows to work. This is not regurgitated content for Neil to push a lot of content. Instead, it's clear Neil puts his real tips and tricks to grow, influence, visibility and maximize your social great, Lee, thank you so much. And if you haven't so far, wherever we are in the world, any review that you can write really helps. Not only me, but it helps other people discover this podcast, as you know, that's the way the algorithms work. So thank you, Lee. Thank you all for listening, and every car in the world. Make it a great social Day. Bye Bye, everybody.